Character Archetypes

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Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:34 pm

Warning, this is a long post, but very interesting and informative...

I've been doing a study of character archetypes because it's been helping me write my own fiction. I found this information especially helpful whenever I have a question about what motivates any character I write about. I thought I'd share since it also helps me understand why sometimes characters might seem a little "off" when handled by writers who unknowingly mis-categorize them and write them based on that mis-categorization (Abram's Trek, for example).

So, from http://jakd.hubpages.com/hub/The-16-Character-Archetypes:


Why only 16?


16 seems like a tiny number to lump the myriad of human behaviors into. Even less when you point out that 8 are male and 8 are female. But, these are generalization based on the ancient Greek Parthenon. Within Greek mythology itself you'll see parallels between characters. Hercules is an Ares archetype, and Hephaestus is a Poseidon archetype, just to give a couple examples. These are main character archetypes as well, there are others that work as title and function within a story, like mentors and rivals. For this hub I will be focusing on the main archetypes and may address character roles on another page.

Why Greek?

Due to the influential power of of Greece and Rome the Greek figures are better known than the pantheons of other cultures. The templates used to define their characteristics can be recognized across cultures however. Ares, Ra, and Thor all share very similar personalities, though how they are received depends on the culture that observes them. Two of the character archetypes, the Messiahs, are based on Egyptian mythology however. These two are relatively new to the character archetype lineup and are usually blended with one of the others. Many people like to point to any popular character and claim it as an archetype, as a writer this is like making a copy of a copy. It will never be as clearly defined as it would if it was based on the original.

Zeus

King/Tyrant

As the king of the gods Zeus has a responsibility to maintain order. As long as order is maintained he wants to go out and play. His position allows him the freedom to dabble in the affairs of every single god, making him a jack of all trades with authority. He has a natural disposition that inspires others to follow him and is clever enough to manipulate those who won't.

As a tyrant his rule is absolute and he will destroy any who resist. His every effort goes into augmenting his power to maintain authority. In this mode his subjects are tools that exist solely to accomplish his goals. He has allowed himself the right to enjoy any vices to feed his appetites.

In both dualities the Zeus figure is beyond reproach. He is the judge after all and is answerable only to himself.

Hera

Wife/Scorned Woman

Hera was the goddess of marriage and the ultimate wife. Despite her husband's many dalliances she remained faithful and took him back every time. Each year she would bathe in a magic spring to make her as young as the day she married Zeus and woo him to her. Despite his obvious short comings he was perfect in her eyes solely because he was her husband. If she were to reprimand him it would be in private so as not to sully his public image.

Once scorned she would became an unstoppable force to obliterate the source of the blight. We see the best examples of Hera's wrath in the story of Hercules, whom she tormented throughout every stage of his life. She only accepted him after Zeus made him a god. Her contempt and lust for vengeance are so severe it overshadows her better qualities.

Regardless of her role she is a wife and queen first. The only thing that may distract her from her husband is her children. She will not tolerate anything that disturbs the order of her family.

Apollo

Businessman/Traitor

Apollo is the image of the prince who is in training to become king. He is quick and sharp in his reasoning. As a master of the bow Apollo is accustomed to having a powerful influence over a long distance and has eyes like a hawk. His every movement is precise. He is the embodiment of the sun and thus must have a clean shining look to him that is fit to impress. He is the bringer of the light of truth and seeks to know all pertinent information.

When the opportunity to move forward presents itself words like loyalty and betrayal don't exist. There is simply the reality of what should be done to assure overall success regardless of who suffers. There is nothing malicious in being a traitor, it is simply what must be done. Remember, when Judas betrayed Christ he thought he was starting a revolution to put the Messiah on the throne. What we call the ultimate act of betrayal was ultimately just a business decision.

An overall theme of this character is the ability to quickly distinguish between gain and loss. All reasoning is based on this decision.

Artemis

Amazon/Gorgon

Most people think that amazon refers to anti-men, it doesn't. The amazons like men just fine, if they are worthy enough to be considered a "partner". To test this they naturally compete with every man to prove they are better. They also possess an intense desire to protect their "sisters" and develop very strong bonds with other women. While as quick to act as her brother Apollo, Artemis is more motivated by passion and duty than cold calculation. She is the symbol of the independent woman who will never be tamed.

When angered her reaction is dangerous. She will lash out in every direction and can stop a man cold with just a stare. It is not in her nature to run unless to gain more favorable ground. She is vicious in her assault and will strike at every weak point she can simultaneously. Like Medusa she provides an image that drives fear and dread into the hearts of men. This is the female berserker and can be likened to the gladiator side of Ares.

In both examples she lives for her sisters and competition. While she admires the character of others she is her own person and makes her own rules moment to moment. Her independence is everything and to be locked into a confining role is torture for her. She needs the outdoors to feel like herself.

Poseidon

Artist/Abuser

When Zeus, Hades and Poseidon were dividing up the mortal realm Poseidon chose a wasteland of nothing. In this empty space beneath the surface of our vision he created a whole world for himself. Poseidon is committed to creating his own reality. The affairs of the rest of the world don't matter unless it disturbs his. His depth is as deep and dark as the ocean itself. He feels things very intensely and expresses it through his art. None can know his world but he can cover ours if he so chooses.

The dark side of Poseidon is that of the abuser. This applies to himself as well as others. His depth of emotion makes him a likely candidate for addiction. His inability to express himself normally causes him to lash out at others and delight in their anguish. When put on the offensive Poseidon likes to smother and crush his foes, like a great wave. Once slighted he will not stop until he feels vindicated. Odysseus can attest to this first hand.

In both cases Poseidon is lord of his own world. Those fortunate enough to be allowed within it should be grateful and offer proper respect.

Hestia

Mystic/Betrayer

If you have no idea who she is you are not alone. When Cronus devoured his children she was the first consumed and the last spat out. This makes her both the oldest and the youngest simultaneously. Their is very little written about Hestia because to do so might change her nature, and Hestia is eternally unchanging. She was the Goddess of the hearth and home. Though there is little mention of her in the myths she was widely recognized in every home. She is mysterious and wise as well as shockingly humble given her elder rank. She is like an old woman and young girl all in one. Regardless of what form she takes she possesses aspects of the other. When Hephaestus was nominated for the pantheon she willingly stepped down to make room for him.

Her hidden wisdom makes her a dangerous adversary when she feels wronged. She is capable of manipulating things behind the scenes to get what she wants. She is so subtle it is sometimes difficult to tell if she has done anything at all. When confronted she feigns innocence and adjusts her strategy accordingly. Her influence is omnipresent and invisible.

Whether she is the old medicine woman or the creepy child with otherworldly insight Hestia is always Hestia. Like Poseidon and Hades she lives in her own world. She is the spirit of acceptance and peace, the goddess of your most contented moments at home.

Ares

Protector/Gladiator

Though not seen in his own myths Ares is the template for the champion figure who lives for conquest. As a protector he is fearless and never backs down. He will place himself in harms way to protect the innocent without a second thought. He exists to fulfill his duty and will not be weighed down with details. When not called to service he doesn't know what to do with himself.

As the gladiator he lives for combat. There is no sense of duty just the drive for physical enjoyment. He is the embodiment of a man who lives completely in his body rather than the heart or mind. When not engaged in combat he can be found wallowing in alcohol and women. Since might makes right he is entitled to whatever he can take by force. Fore-site is not in his nature so he is prone to excess.

What drives the Ares archetype is raw masculine impulse. In either scenario he is the stereotypical "man". Thinking doesn't suit this figure unless it pertains to strategy, even then his focus is on victory and conquest. His focus is always pointed straight ahead, unlike Apollo who perceives all as he journeys his course.

Athena

Father's Daughter/ Strategist

Athena was born by springing from Zeus' skull. As a result she had no mother and formed no maternal connections. Instead she prefers to see herself as one of the guys. She is not better, like Artemis tries to prove, and she is not submissive, as Aphrodite pretends, instead, she is equal and will stand shoulder to shoulder with any man. Like Ares, she was a war deity. Instead of offensive tactics she focused on solid defense and control over the situation. She was also the goddess of wisdom. Her pursuit of a pure knowledge was so genuine that she swore to never lie with a man or allow herself to become distracted by such things. Still she spent her time in the company of men, mostly philosophers and inventors, not as a lover but a colleague.

There is little distinction became the two sides of her nature. Like Apollo, Athena simply follows the logical, profitable course. In the story of Medusa Athena punishes her own priestess for being raped by Poseidon in her own temple. Poseidon is the guilty party in this situation, but, he is also a man. It is for this reason that the victim is punished and Poseidon escapes reproach. So we see that Athena will not give a second thought to betraying a follower to maintain her standing.

Athena only resorts to playing the feminine role as a last resort, even then it is only part of some larger strategy. After which she will reassert herself and her masculinity. She will do whatever is needed to maintain her position.

Hades

Recluse/Warlock

Hades has at his disposal all the knowledge that ever was since all things eventually wind up in his kingdom. He is also the only god whose realm is always expanding. In Greek society his name was seldom uttered for fear of calling death to you. Like Hestia he was seldom mentioned but always on the minds of the people, though for opposite reasons. There are few cases of him emerging from his cavernous kingdom. In one such case it was to kidnap Persephone. His own isolation fed directly into his dark side.

When moved to vengeance he uses all the knowledge at his disposal to plot a careful revenge. When angered it is not obvious since he will take every bit of information into account before deciding his course of action. By manipulating information his powers of assault seem almost magical. He is not up front but instead employs subterfuge and stealth.

Hades is another god that lives in his own world. His is based on facts and knowledge. He is the mad scientist and the sage. Research and knowledge are his primary concern interrupted occasionally by intense loneliness.

Persephone

Maiden/Rebellious Daughter

Persephone is the perpetual damsel in distress. She represents the young woman who has yet to come into her own. She is the little sister who may still grow to become any one of the other female archetypes. Her hallmark action is indecision as she needs instruction or aid to get anything done. Her fate is always in the hands of others.

As the rebellious daughter she finds ways of getting herself into the trouble that the maiden is known for. When she decides that being doted over has gotten to be too much she lashes out at herself. It may be drugs, or sex or just following the advice of a wolf in the woods. Regardless, she will put herself in a situation that she will need to be saved from.

This character is usually the easiest to spot. All one need do is look for the youngest female with the most ignorant look on her face and that's usually her. As the goddess of spring she is usually associated with flowers.

Hermes

Wanderer/Fool

Hermes was the god of travelers, commerce, thieves and messenger to the other gods. The reason for his many titles and tasks may have been solely to keep him out of trouble. When not carrying out the tasks of the other gods he is usually engaged in some mischievousness. He was called the guardian of Dionysus, an indication that points to his ability to always have a good time. If Athena has wisdom and Hades has knowledge than Hermes is the god of wit. He is a wanderer with eclectic taste and knowledge of worldly things. One thing that drives Hermes mad is being in any one place for too long. Due to this he is horrible at making plans and is often times unreliable. This archetype relates wonderfully to children since he himself refuses to grow up.

In his darker moments Hermes gives in to his lackadaisical side and becomes the fool. This is not to suggest that he has any less wit, he just hides it very effectively behind a foolish mask. He may outwardly jest while plotting the entire time. The greatest asset at his disposal is being underrated. He lacks the ambition of the other gods since it implies responsibility though he is curious as to their affairs. This provides him leverage should he need it.

Hermes is a master of wit and disguise. Often when Zeus would disguise himself as a mortal Hermes would accompany him. Hermes is associated with the element mercury, this indicates how malleable Hermes disposition is. He knows what is going on and how to go with the flow.

Demeter

Loving Mother/Overbearing Parent

Demeter is the embodiment of Mother Nature herself. As Hades was the god of death she was the goddess that gave the people life. The only thing that would distract from her duties to ensure the harvest was the love she bestowed on her own daughter. She is the provider and her maternal role is what defines her. If no child is present to nurture she will adopt the closest resemblance possible.

When anything threatens her offspring she becomes heartlessly cruel out of love. When Hades took her child she froze the land, refusing to allow crops to grow until Persephone was returned. After Demeter and Hades struck a compromise she still brings winter whenever her daughter is away. In terms of the child she will lock her up in chains if it means keeping her safe. Nothing comes before the well being of her offspring, not even their love.

Demeter is always the mother. She is the symbol of fertility.

Dionysus

Ladies man/Seducer

When Dionysus was born his mother burst into flames and he rose from the pyre. He prefers the company of women. Although he'll never admit it, he's been looking for a surrogate mother his whole life. Due to his feminine qualities people often think he is gay if he has not been mistaken for a girl. He prefers to live on the outskirts of society and is a wild god of intoxication. Despite this fact he is very refined and delivers hangovers to those who do not exercise self control. Despite being amongst the youngest of the gods he is often depicted at the center of his own entourage.

When his romantic conquests seem to be failing he employs his powers of seduction. In this capacity he becomes the template for the vampire. His appetites consume him and he transforms into a beast. He will violate any code to possess the object of his desire. He has the power to intoxicate his quarry with his personality alone. When he is denied love he will attempt to take it.

Dionysus' rapport comes from how non-threatening he appears to be. Despite his slender frame he has a strong resolve to resist the status quo. His parties were often attended by other gods who would disguise themselves as mortals to attend.

Aphrodite

Seductress/Femme Fatale

Unlike the seducer role used by Dionysus there is no malice in Aphrodite's seduction. Her's stems from a form of naivety which may be real or pretend. When not in the presence of a lesser female role, such as the maiden, she appears as innocently as she can. When in the maiden's presence she will adopt the big sister role and may even try to lead her down the seductress path. She is accustomed to having men at her disposal to meet her every desire. Keeping men around makes her feel safe. When anything distracts from her she becomes angry and sullen.

As the femme fatale she uses her alluring power to manipulate others to accomplish her goals. She is the master of feigning innocence. Once cornered she will cry and try to seduce her way out of it. One thing that enrages her more than any other is being ignored. She needs all eyes to be on her, or else she will have a fit. She is shameless in flaunting her body to get what she wants and oozes sexuality at all times. Her wrath is terrible, as seen in the story of Cupid and Psyche, one of the few examples of her ugly side.

Although considered a purely sexual figure she was capable of much more depth. She was a wife, mother and sister though her role as a sexually liberated woman takes precedence in peoples' minds. Her very nature is that of love of all kinds.

Osiris

Messiah/Punisher

The messiah archetype almost deserves to be a sub-archetype. Any of the others can provide the framework for the messiah archetype to grow. The key aspects to look for is the messiah's ability to bring out the best in others and the pursuit of some higher purpose. Every aspect of life other than their divine role is secondary. Anyone who does not have something to do with their higher purpose is seldom worth recognizing.

The dark side of the Messiah is the punisher. He does not engage in physical combat if it can be avoided. He would prefer to preach and use his words to try tearing the system down. His primary weapon is the hearts of the people.

Isis

Messiah/Destroyer

The female messiah is similar to the male except that she is more aggressive in her mission. While the male messiah punishes using his words the female messiah destroys. She will form an army and stand at the front to lead the charge against tyranny. She is the holy warrior, like Joan of Arc.
In Conclusion

This is the list with the briefest definitions I could think up. I hope this will be useful to someone other than myself. In the future I may do an in depth analysis of each one. I just felt there needed to be a more reliable source online for any others who might be looking for it.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby Linda » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:19 am

These archetypes are interesting and I have only skimmed over them for now. If I were to use them, I think I would write enough of my character's personality first, then check the archetypes to see if my character fit any of them. A lot of science fiction that I have read seems light on characterization, but complex characters are the most interesting. So I am wondering of some characters may have characteristics of more than one archetype. Anyway, I will be rereading this information on the 16 types more carefully soon.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:35 am

I tend to think many of the Trek characters have at least two of the types in them. I've been watching a lot of Voyager lately so I'll use that as an example:

Captn' Janeway is Athena as well as Hera
Tom Paris is Hermes and Ares
Harry Kim is about 100% Apollo (incidentally, so is Spock)
Torres is Athena and Artemis
Kes is Demeter and Persephone
Seven is Isis and Athena
The Doctor is Poseidon
Chakotay is Hades
and Tuvok is Hades as well.
Neelix is Hermes
And if anyone were to develop Miral Paris, she would be Isis and Artemis.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby putaro » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:38 am

From a modern view point, all of the Greek gods were bat-shit crazy, so using them as archetypes doesn't seem like such a good idea. I looked through the archetypes and tried to fit my friends and family into them - didn't work. I like to have characters that are more like real people and I try to base some character traits on people that I've known. It's pretty easy to reach into the grab bag of stereotypes and pull one out which seems to be something that TV (and movie) writers do all too often. We see them in poorly written novels as well.

There was an interesting article on Slate a while back that looked at a similar problem, where movies are being written to hit a template.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:07 pm

Well, even the writer of the article stated that the archetypes are pretty much skeletons and are not to be mistaken for the whole sum of the character.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby panyasan » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:03 am

Thanks for sharing, Coffee Cat. It seems to me that it helps you in your writing, but hopefully you can step out the box while using these archetypes.

For me, I don't think it would work.

First of all, I don't like Greek mythology. I am with Putaro on this one. The characters in those stories are crazy, over the top. Manipulation seems to rule among them and I hate manipulation. Compassion or hope or sacrificing yourself for others seems totally absent and I think that it's also part of humanity and makes live bearable.

Second of all: I don't like stereotypes. Look at the women: most of them are or seductress/femme Fatal or a scorned wife or overbearing mother. Personally I think a woman can have many sides and not just her negative ones. For example, she can be beautiful and sexy, a good wife and a good mother, has a sense of humor and just be herself and have many flaws at the same time.

I remember Tom Paris once say to the doctor in ST VOY that he was disappointed that the doctor still thought of him like he appeared to be in season one. Tom had grown in his life. That development I find interesting.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:00 am

Can anyone here name a completely original character that doesn't fit one of those. Try it.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby panyasan » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:15 pm

Take a kind, intelligent, full of humor, compassionate, good friend like Trip.

But you're missing the point. I just don't like cliches or restricting a character. I like them to do things or to grow in their lives.
I also don't like placing someone in a box. Take a exotic, beautiful young woman, living among a race that isn't hers and doesn't understand her. Because she is so attractive, people would probably line her up as Femme fatal, like some people think T'Pol is.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:04 pm

Trip is a Hermes just like Tom Paris and Neelix and Xander Harris (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Nice try, though.

And T'Pol is an Athena, not a Aphrodite. So is Captain Janeway and Tasha Yar.
If you want an example of an Aphrodite, there is Deanna Troi and Ginger from Gilligan's Island.

Like I said, and archetype is like a skeleton and not the sum of the whole character. I think you're making arguments based on a strawman assumption that if all characters stem from a type, that makes them a cliche'. Obviously, all these characters are very different from each other. Tom Paris and Neelix are very different, but they stem from the same type. Tuvok from Voyager and Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Gandalf the Grey all stem from the same type, but are very different, unique characters. Another example would be Kes (Voyager) and Cordelia Chase (Buffy) and Arial (The Little Mermaid) all come from the Persephone archetype.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby putaro » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:12 pm

CoffeeCat wrote:Can anyone here name a completely original character that doesn't fit one of those. Try it.


OK, let's see how well they fit.

The description for Apollo is:
Archetypes wrote:
Businessman/Traitor

Apollo is the image of the prince who is in training to become king. He is quick and sharp in his reasoning. As a master of the bow Apollo is accustomed to having a powerful influence over a long distance and has eyes like a hawk. His every movement is precise. He is the embodiment of the sun and thus must have a clean shining look to him that is fit to impress. He is the bringer of the light of truth and seeks to know all pertinent information.

When the opportunity to move forward presents itself words like loyalty and betrayal don't exist. There is simply the reality of what should be done to assure overall success regardless of who suffers. There is nothing malicious in being a traitor, it is simply what must be done. Remember, when Judas betrayed Christ he thought he was starting a revolution to put the Messiah on the throne. What we call the ultimate act of betrayal was ultimately just a business decision.

An overall theme of this character is the ability to quickly distinguish between gain and loss. All reasoning is based on this decision.


You mentioned both Harry Kim and Spock as fitting this archetype. However, how about this part:

Apollo wrote:When the opportunity to move forward presents itself words like loyalty and betrayal don't exist. There is simply the reality of what should be done to assure overall success regardless of who suffers.


Both Harry and Spock have loyalty to their friends and crew as one of the key parts of their characters. Spock in the first season of TOS might have made a "logical" decision to betray a crew member - maybe. That never happened, and definitely as the character evolved it became unthinkable. Could you imagine Spock betraying Kirk, even if the result were, say, galactic peace?

Personally, I find the loyalties of the various crews to each other one of the key parts of Star Trek in all its various incarnations. Not one of those archetypes has loyalty as a defining trait. Technology is another key part of Star Trek and science fiction. The closest we come to someone who is a scientist or engineer is Hades who is described as a "mad scientist".
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:32 pm

Well. If you will notice, at the beginning of each archetype, there is something that looks like this:

Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde


Of course, under Apollo, it says:

Businessman/Traitor


What you are seeing is the hero/anti-hero sides of the archetype. It's very possible to have a character play out the hero part of the archetype without being the anti-hero.

You don't see Spock or Harry as the traitor, because they fit the hero side of the archetype, which is the Businessman. But if something tragic were to happen to them to throw them off-balance into the anti-hero side, it becomes predictable based on their archetype on what they would do in certain situations. It's like you're seeing their mirror-universe counterparts.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby Asso » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:29 pm

When it comes to archetypes, we talk about something that exists and affects us regardless of our will, regardless of what we think of these archetypes, no matter how much we think of we can detach ourselves from them.
In the same moment in which we deny the archetypes, we affirm their existence.
They are part of the archetype of our mind and our subconscious.
They may vary depending on the latitutdine, but if you think about it, the archetypes of Nordic mythology are not much different from those of Greek mythology or from those of other mythologies.
Men have invented them because they have given substance to what men themselves are, even when they think or strive not to be.
And, when we write, we use the archetypes. Even without realizing it. Even when we maltreat them knowingly.
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby Alelou » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:06 am

I think all these archetypes and others (the witch, the mischief-maker, the wizard, etc. -- to name a few that might fall into the Greek scheme somewhere, or might not...) can be very interesting when you want to analyze a character that already exists -- if you want to engage in archetypal literary criticism, for example.

For writing them? Maybe this system works for a lot of people. For myself, I just can't imagine thinking about original characters that way. Mine arise out of some idea of what I want them to want to do and then figuring out how they must be in order to want to do that. They take on their personalities, and once that is set in motion they are often still capable of surprising me within the bounds I've set for them. When it comes to Trip or T'Pol or any of the Enterprise crew, I just think of them as the people we see every week, as if they're real people (granted, people we can argue over, much as we do over real people in our lives). Otherwise, as a writer I think I'd be over-thinking it, or worse, not respecting who they are. Which I know sounds like nonsense since they are not actually real, but that's how it feels. Surely that's how we feel when we're reading a piece we really like. We KNOW those people, and we care about them as if they are real. Not figures. People.
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CoffeeCat
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby CoffeeCat » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:20 pm

In my writing, I use the archetypes to create a character and then I build on them until they begin to want to break their programming, like the Holodoc on Voyager.

In Abram's Trek, I wish they had bothered to look at the original Captain Kirk's archetype (Zeus) so they didn't make him into the cliche' bad-ass douche-bag character that couldn't realistically win any normal person's respect, never mind command a starship.
Writing as TrekPyro.

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Linda
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Re: Character Archetypes

Postby Linda » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:13 pm

I am fascinated by the Briggs-Meyers 16 personality types. I have not tried to fit fictional characters with these, but I am now thinking of comparing these Greek archetypes to them. Are there other systems of archetypes for fictional characters? This is a very interesting line of thought that CoffeeCat has introduced us to.
Working on a major fan fic project. Two-thirds done. Hope to put it up in the not TOO distant future.


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