KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby CX » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:27 pm

I tend to think of it as the first time Star Trek started to give us arrogant, bigoted Vulcans as we came to see them on ENT. At least I can't remember any other examples before that episode.

Oh yeah, and you'll love this - it takes place on the holosuite. ;)
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Two more episode reviews before I conclude this season:


6-24 Time's Orphan

Time's Orphan was rather mediocre. It tried to have its cake and eat it too and in the process managed to make the O'Briens look self-serving when the writers were going for compassionate. First we have the lesser cousin of the Guardian of Forever conveniently located in a cave on a Bajoran colony planet. That in itself might have been an interesting story but everyone seems surprisingly uninterested with this discovery. I would have expected Starfleet's temporal investigators to show up.

But it was just a plot device to throw poor Molly O'Brien back in time so she could come back ten years older as a "child from the wilderness" (the red-blooded male in me couldn't help but notice how pretty grown-up Molly, played by Michelle Krusiec, was). The rest is the O'Briens more or less futile attempt to make their daughter adjust to civilization again.

The resolution is what bugged me most about this episode. For all of Miles O'Brien's talk in the beginning of never wanting to leave his wife and kids again, here he is willing to do just that. What kind of parents would allow, let alone scheme, to send their poor kid back into the lonely wilderness again? They didn't know about what her conditions had been like. She had survived but that might have been just because of blind luck. I've never bought the Rosseauian idea of "noble savages". As Thomas Hobbes put it, "the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Would it have inconvenienced the O'Briens too much to accompany their daughter to another planet full of open spaces and help her out there?

As it happens, they still got their cake, although through no effort of their own. Grown-up Molly arrived back in time just to meet her younger self and send her back through the lesser Guardian of Forever to reunite with her folks, at which point she herself dissolves into temporal non-existence. Convenient as that was, I'd still have sent Child Services on the O'Briens' asses!

The B-plot featuring Worf's parenting skills as he babysat Yoshi was just forgettable fluff.

I'll give a grade of 3 to Time's Orphan. At least we now know what method Trek has been using for all the fast-grown kids (like Alexander or Naomi Wildman) we've seen.

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*****

6-25 The Sound of Her Voice

The Sound of her Voice left me quite untouched, despite that it tried for being emotionally poignant. I knew from the beginning that they probably wouldn't be able to save this stranded Captain Cusak, I just didn't know how. The method used, while techno-babbly, was satisfactory. It just never moved me that much.

The use of this Captain's voice to talk to the different cast members about their problems didn't manage to resonate with me. It didn't go that deep and frankly left me bored and wishing for them to get on with it. At least I can agree with Captain Cusak and O'Brien that I do not like the concept of Counselors in Starfleet.

There really isn't that much to say about this episode. The B-plot about Odo and Quark was standard fare. It mostly felt like we've already been there and done that.

The Sound of Her Voice gets an average grade of 5- on my 10-graded scale.

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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:12 am

And the last episode plus a season overview:


6-26 Tears of the Prophets

This season finale left me a bit unsatisfied. It didn't carry the amount of punch I had expected it to. But Tears of the Prophets is still a good episode. It's just that it wasn't great and I had more or less counted on that. I didn't get the sense of loss from the death of Jadzia or the ordeal of Sisko that made him take a leave of absence in the end.

Apart from the early episodes, the Dominion War has been rather absent this season, despite it being in full swing (off-screen unfortunately). So I was glad to see it making a comeback here. Some really cool, but all too brief, space battles were seen. The long overdue offensive against the Dominion is finally underway and no matter what happened in the end I do think it was a success. The Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance did win the battle of the Chin'toka system, and have now got a foothold on enemy territory.

OK, so the wormhole has disappeared (temporarily I'm sure), but that means a guarantee that there will really be no Dominion reinforcements coming that way. But then again, it's been practically sealed off ever since they mined the wormhole entrance. How is that not considered a great victory? Sisko said he had failed as a Starfleet officer. Not in my book, he hasn't. Well, unless one considers him giving Kira command after he had his Obi-Wan Kenobi moment when the wormhole closed ("I felt a great disturbance in the Force!") a failure.

However he did fail as the Emissary when he didn't heed their advice, and now the wormhole and the Prophets are gone. But that's a different matter. Besides, I'm not that comfortable with someone doing the bidding of some god-like beings for no good (or at least articulate) reason. Free will and all that. Sure, the Bajorans have now lost their gods, but I'm staring to wonder if that's not a good thing. They didn't do them that much good anyway, considering the lengthy and genocidal Cardassian occupation. It's time the Bajorans took control of their own destinies.

As I said, Jadzia's death didn't move me that much. Maybe that's because I've known about it for years. Or maybe it's because I was never that heavily invested in her character anyway. And after the Risan excursion (Let He Who is Without Sin) my feelings towards Worf/Jadzia have cooled considerably. So I didn't choke up at her deathbed, or when Sisko had his moment alone in front of her casket. It was also a contrived death at the hands of the pah-wraith possessed Dukat. Her death was there just because actress Terry Farrell had decided she wanted to leave the show. While it did tie in with the larger events, I somehow think the writers could've made more out of it. And just to string along our hearts and make it more tragic they made sure that we knew Worf and Jadzia planned on having a baby, and showed the (completely unnecessary and regressed) feelings Quark and Bashir still had for her.

It was unclear what exactly, if anything, Jadzia had managed to tell the others about what had happened. Since it was possessed Dukat that killed her and unleashed the pah-wraith that presumably made the wormhole close, there really wasn't much Sisko could've done even if he had stayed behind and hadn't lead the attack on the Dominion. Given his grieving and going back home to peel potatoes at his dad's restaurant, Jadzia didn't manage to tell him or others that much.

I've previously expressed my misgiving about the direction they've taken with Dukat and that still stands. I'm apprehensive about him being this madman when he used to be a more complex character. Now he showed up as a plot device, having conveniently located a Bajoran artefact that just happened to have a pah-wraith trapped in it. It makes me wonder how many such artefacts there are, and how many pah-wraiths there are - especially compared to how many Prophets there might be.

So a bit disappointed I can only give Tears of the Prophets a grade of 7+ on my 10-graded scale.

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*****

Season Six Overview

For being the supposed high point in the series, season six was as much of a hit and miss as the previous seasons have been. Even though the Dominion War has finally started, we were still treated to the same amount of mediocre and outright bad filler episodes. Sure there were some truly excellent episodes as well, but so had the other seasons. I really saw nothing that made this season stand out compared to most of the others, and I must say I'm rather disappointed at that. For all the talk of the war, it was too often just that, talk and precious little to see of it.

It started out really great, with a six episode mini-arc focusing on the war. But even that arc had a duller middle portion. Then there was a prolonged stretch of mostly average episodes, followed by two excellent outings featuring the darker side of DS9-verse (Inquisition and In the Pale Moonlight), with the last episodes back into average territory. Even the season finale felt unsatisfactory.

So DS9 didn't live up to its potential or to my expectations. There just wasn't enough follow-through on promises and specific storylines for my tastes. Still, it is a good show, and when it is good it is really, really good. It's just not consistently good, and for all its faults in seasons three and four, I do feel that ENT was more consistently good. On DS9, for every A Time to Stand there is a Profit and Lace (the low-point of the season if not the series). But this is what I've come to expect of DS9 by now, and I fully expect to see it in the next season as well.

They took a risk when they had the station occupied for the first six episodes and I liked that. Unfortunately once our guys regained it it was pretty much back to the status quo ante. And I'm still a bit miffed at the literal prophets ex machina that saved their asses. I know that for its time it was a pretty big step for Trek to take, but even so, I wish there had been more shake-ups and changes. And I know that Star Trek isn't supposed to be about war and nifty space battles, but dammit, I wanted to see more of it than I have.

On the character front I liked Sisko's developments into a darker character, wrestling with his decisions and actions during a time of war. Even Bashir has matured and was really sombre in the first six episodes arc. The relationship between Odo and Kira was (unfortunately) consummated. I had hoped it wouldn't, especially considering his betrayal with the female Founder, but the resolution to that dilemma was conveniently - and literally - kept in the closet. A perfect example of the lack of follow-through. Worf and Jadzia ended tragically when she died, but I had by then grown disinterested in the pairing. Dukat's fall from grace and subsequent descent into madness is something I do not approve of. It is in my view something of a character assassination that hope will be rectified next season, even if I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Summing up my grades I get a season average of 5.48, or 5+ on my 10-graded scale, which is actually slightly lower than both season four and five, and even season two. You can thank the abysmal and zero-graded Profit and Lace for that. But it still shows that DS9 to me is still, whatever season we're talking about, pretty average overall, despite the true excellence shown in some of the episodes. Going into its final season I don't expect that to change, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby CX » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:59 am

Trek has never been able to do character death very well. It's one of those great mysteries, sort of like why they kept doing crappy Ferengi episodes to appease the suits' desire for lightness instead of doing something that was actually good. The thing I liked about Jadzia's death was that crew members were actually shown to, you know, mourn her loss. Sisko leaves, and the finale leaves us wondering for how long. Actually the best part of the finale is that it ends on a bittersweet note - the battle was won, but a main character is dead, the wormhole and the prophets are gone, and Sisko has gone home to deal with it all, having fallen from a great war leader to scrubbing clams in an ally behind his father's restaurant.

As for what's coming up next season, I'm sorry to disappoint in regards to Dukat (about which I entirely agree), but both he and Winn are made to be EVIL! if you know what I mean. Unfortunately, I'm also pretty sure that you'll find the beginning of S7 pretty "meh". There are some stupid holosuite episodes, including one that gives us a preview of the Vulcans on ENT, and one last eye-rolling romp in the MU that actually completely forgets a part of its own continuity for the sake of a few laughs and some fake lesbian kissing. It really doesn't start to pick up until Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, and from that point on, it's like one big long episode leading up to the series finale, which is still one of Trek's best, even if it kind of drags in the last half-hour of it or so.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby JadziaKathryn » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:57 am

What I disliked about Jadzia's death (and I always liked the character, and also think her name is fun, as you've likely guessed) was the tacky red-light-and-convulsions bit.

But I agree that closing the wormhole should've been seen as a major victory at this point, which nobody capitalized on. Admiral Ross should've been planning another big attack, I think.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:58 pm

Begun, the seventh season has...


Season Seven

7-01 Image in the Sand

For DS9 this season opener is quite slow. They often carry more punch, but I really didn't mind it here. Image in the Sand was a good episode that nicely carried on from last season's finale. It was low key but effective.

Benjamin Sisko is still at his father's restaurant on Earth, having taken a leave of absence from Starfleet, trying to figure things out. Turns out there was a method to this since the Prophets aren't done with him, as he gets a vision of a woman that turns out to have been his real mother (and probably a prophet as well). So he must now track down "the Orb of the Emissary" that can set things right again. But not before he's attacked by a Bajoran pah-wraith worshipper. All this played out very well, and Sisko's ponderings and reactions were believable.

Meanwhile Kira, now promoted to Colonel, is in charge of the station and confronts a Romulan presence. At first there was some genuine chemistry between the Romulan senator Cretak and Kira, but then I was reminded how devious the Romulan are and lo and behold, they had of course ulterior motives and decided to arm their "hospital" on that Bajoran moon. In a way that's too bad, because Cretak had the possibility to go beyond the traditional Romulan mould. And their presence at the station is likely to go away too, which is also a pity, because that could've proven interesting.

I like the fact that the cast is still mourning the death of Jadzia and that she's not just been forgotten. It was also moving that Bashir and O'Brien wants to tag along with Worf so they could achieve the glorious victory necessary for Jadzia to go to Sto'vo'kor, the Klingon afterlife, similar to Valhalla in Norse mythology.

Image in the Sand was just the first part and a good set-up for the conclusion in the following episode. It ended by letting us have a brief look at the new Dax, Ezri, and that was probably a good thing. There just weren't enough room to introduce a new character in the beginning of the episode. I'll get back to Ezri in the next review, but I must say that I nearly fell of my seat when I saw how incredibly cute she was.

I'm a bit surprised at how much I did like Image in the Sand and I will thus give it a grade of 7- on my 10-graded scale.

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*****

7-02 Shadows and Symbols

Shadows and Symbols is the conclusion to the previous Image in the Sand and it is hard to view them isolated from each other. And it was a very satisfactory second part that followed through the three storylines from the first part. It never got confusing even if I sometimes wish they hadn't cut so often between them. But all three plots played out well.

First there was of course Sisko with his son and dad and the new Dax going into the desert to un-earth (or should that be un-Tyree?) a previously unknown Orb buried there by his prophet mother. Yeah, I was right, Sisko's real mother was a Prophet and that explains why he's considered the Emissary by the Bajorans. He is in many was a demi-god, a link between the divine and mundane, something like Hercules. This is bound to have a profound impact. And what will Starfleet think about this? They were already sceptical about Sisko as a Bajoran religious figure and now he's half-divine.

Opening up this Orb presumably released his mother so she could toss out the pah-wraith from the "celestial temple" (where did it go?) and open up the wormhole again. This was perhaps a bit too tidy a solution. And I'm not sure I cared for the Mad Sisko angle when he thought he was Benny Russell (Far Beyond the Stars) in a mental hospital being harassed by Dr. Damar. And what were they wearing in the desert? Pyjamases? They looked ridiculous!

Secondly, there is Kira kicking Rommie ass. Well, not literally but she did handle herself really well here facing down the Romulans and the Federation. It was her fierce determination that made Admiral Ross take a stand against the Romulans. Major kudos to the new Colonel. Still, I'm sorry to see the Romulans depart the station now.

And thirdly there is the mission to get Jadzia to Klingon heaven, also known as the destruction of the Dominion shipyards in the Monac system. I thought Worf was being a jerk at first and didn't appreciate that his friends, and even Quark, came along to help. But he did come around and even apologized. That was a nice moment.

Lastly I must mention Ezri Dax. I think I'm in love already. She's just absolutely adorable. It's not just that she (like actress Nicole deBoer) is cute as a button, but I like her personality as well. She seems real in way I never thought Jadzia did. Her vulnerability and insecurities felt very genuine. This is an interesting facet in Trills, having to cope with the memories of all these older incarnations. Since she was joined almost by accident she hasn't had enough training and preparation and this was conveyed very well. Who is she? She didn't even know what kind of beverage she liked. I'm certainly looking forward to see more of Ezri as this season unfolds.

I'll give a grade of 7+ to Shadows and Symbols.

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*****

7-03 Afterimage

I really shouldn't like Afterimage as much as I do. After all, it's the third episode and the war has barely been touched upon. Add to that a very predictable plot. But Ezri Dax is just too delightful to watch so I can't help myself. I think I have a new favourite character and I'm already sorry that she only got to be in one season.

It was a risk having an episode focusing on the newcomer this early on, but it was necessary to further introduce not just us but the other characters to her presence. And Nikki deBoer had the acting skills to pull it off. I'm sorry for all the Jadzia and Terry Farrell fans out there, but after this episode I feel Ezri has more of a personality than six years of Jadzia ever managed to show us. I don't even mind that Ezri's occupation is that of a counselor - a concept I've intensely disliked ever since Deanna Troi's mindless psychobabble. That ought to say something about how much I like Ezri.

Garak having repeated breakdowns went perhaps a bit overboard sometimes, especially in the airlock scene, but it served its purpose. I liked how he and Ezri essentially muddled through with their analyses of each other, and that it was just luck that revealed the reason for Garak's breakdown - as a Cardassian he feels guilt over helping Cardassia's enemies. I'm just not sure if that's how psycho-therapy works, but then again, both characters are aliens and not humans. Ezri and Garak had some good chemistry.

Like in the previous episode I thought Worf was too much of a jerk, this time with poor Ezri (not to mention his confrontation with Bashir). Still, it is hard for him to accept that a part of his dead wife lives on in this new person. At least he came around in the end, and that, like with Garak, was a foregone conclusion.

Thanks to the lovely Ezri I give Afterimage a grade of 7 on my 10-graded scale.

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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby JadziaKathryn » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:01 pm

Hehe. "Un-Tyree."

Is that Nicole de Boer, your new avatar?

I never got the impression Sisko was a demi-god because the Sarah prophet took over his physical mother's body. Ergo, he's fully human. It was just weirdly done.

How come Starfleet isn't annoyed that Sisko opened the wormhole and once again the Dominion can get reinforcements through?

I like Ezri, but I still like Jadzia. Wasn't there a line from Garak - "she owned herself." I think part of why I like Jadzia is that she was basically a secure person in who she was (aside from that whole needing Curzon's approval through zhian'tara plot which I never cared for). But Ezri is more identifiable.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:39 pm

JadziaKathryn wrote:Is that Nicole de Boer, your new avatar?

Yup!

How come Starfleet isn't annoyed that Sisko opened the wormhole and once again the Dominion can get reinforcements through?

Good point! Maybe the Prophets still destroys any reinforcements that tries to get through?

I like Ezri, but I still like Jadzia. Wasn't there a line from Garak - "she owned herself." I think part of why I like Jadzia is that she was basically a secure person in who she was (aside from that whole needing Curzon's approval through zhian'tara plot which I never cared for). But Ezri is more identifiable.

Well, I tend to like Ezri because she's not such a secure person. She feels real in that regard. As you say, "identifiable". And maybe she draws out the male protectiveness in me, I dunno.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby thecursor » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:38 am

Kevin Thomas Riley wrote:
JadziaKathryn wrote:
How come Starfleet isn't annoyed that Sisko opened the wormhole and once again the Dominion can get reinforcements through?

Good point! Maybe the Prophets still destroys any reinforcements that tries to get through?


Why? It's because he's a pimp, that's why.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:49 pm

Three more reviews:


7-04 Take Me Out to the Holosuite

Vulcans playing baseball! That alone says it all. I had been forewarned about this episode so I can't say I'm surprised. It's one of those stupid fluff episodes the writers just have to throw in every once in a while. But where on Earth did they think of such an inane concept as Vulcans playing baseball in a holosuite? Is that even logical?

I'm not a sports fan to begin with. And as a European and Swede I know precious little about this pastime across the pond and that factor alone makes me dislike Take Me Out to the Holosuite.

There is nothing substantial to see here and it really wouldn't even be enough for a B-story in another episode. This one doesn't even have a B-story. It's all arrogant Vulcans hitting a ball and Sisko et al. nevertheless celebrating the supposed joys of the game. At least they didn't go for the cliché of having the Niners actually win the damn game.

Strike me out. Take Me Out to the Holosuite gets a grade of 1 from me.

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*****

7-05 Chrysalis

Statistical Probabilities was a somewhat mediocre episode last season, so I could see no compelling reason why we should revisit Bashir's crazy genetically enhanced cousins. But here they are again, this time to serve as a Romance-of-the-Week™ for Bashir when he falls for Sarina, a patient he cures from muteness. I can understand that he fell in love with her, but generally I don't care much for these types of stories since it's a foregone conclusion that it will not work out (Sarina is a guest star after all).

I also expected her to revert into muteness by the end and while the episode did toy with it, I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't go with that cliché. She was however overwhelmed with what had happened and sensibly decided that she could not remain with Bashir. This also shows why a doctor should never get involved with his patients. And for all the trouble in bringing back the rest of the "Jack Pack", they didn't amount to much.

There really isn't that much more to say about Chrysalis except to give it a grade of 4+ on my 10-graded scale.

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*****

7-06 Treachery, Faith, and the Great River

Now this is a whole lot better. Treachery, Faith, and the Great River was a great episode that revealed more about the Vorta and the Founders, and was a good character piece for both Odo and Weyoun, or should I say the Weyouns. This is bound to have serious repercussions down the line as DS9 concludes its multiple storylines this the very last season.

I found the concept of a flawed Vorta clone very intriguing and Jeff Combs played Weyoun-6 to perfection. His worship of Odo makes sense and it must be really schizophrenic for a Vorta to adjust to the concept of a rogue Founder that is an enemy of the Dominion. For that matter, it must be schizophrenic even for the other Founders, as witnessed by their unwillingness to kill Odo, who they still consider on of their own. Given the disease that is spreading among the Great Link, I think Weyoun-6 could rationalize his treachery by aligning himself with the one shapeshifter that might be left standing.

This also brings up the interesting subject of what this disease really is. How did they contract it? Were they deliberately infected, and if so by whom? Other flawed Vorta clones or even some Jem'Hadar? Cardassians? Damar despite his apparent surprise at how the female changeling looked? For that matter who killed Weyoun-5 in the transporter "accident"? It seems likely that it was Damar from both the fact that he had not accompanied Weyoun-5 on that transporter and from the look Weyoun-7 gave him. I'm suspecting there's more to Damar than just a disgruntled Gul drinking too much kanar.

And if the Great Link has been deliberately infected it brings up the issue of genocide and if it can be justified. Much like the Borg there are few, if any, redeeming qualities about the Dominion. In order to defeat them and be really sure that you have, you practically have to exterminate them. The Founders are bred for conquest in the Great Link. Odo is an exception because he was a rogue - one brought up outside the Great Link. But that also means that shapeshifters theoretically can be bred for peaceful co-existence. They just have to have the right upbringing and the present Great Link doesn't offer that. Maybe this is the role Odo will play in the end? Weyoun-6 suggests something like it. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

In all this, the B-plot was pretty lightweight, but I was surprised about how tolerable it was. It must have been because it showed all the shortcomings of a planned socialist economy (and a military is a planned economy, with all the bureaucratic red tape and inherent scarcity) and the superiority of a market economy, or as Nog called it - "The Great Material Continuum". Since the entire 24th century Federation seems to run on the same principles as Starfleet this is a rather powerful indictment against it. I'm voting Nog for President to shake things up!

I'll give a grade of 9- to Treachery, Faith, and the Great River.

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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Linda » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:04 pm

I LIKED "Take Me Out to the Holosuite". :(

The best part was that the Niners did not win but Sisko was big enough to let Rom back in the game. I enjoyed the fact that Solok still did not 'get it'. The only thing I would have liked to see more of was further backstory or present interaction with the rivalry between Solok and Sisko.
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby thecursor » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:12 pm

A one? Feeling generous? How did you even finish that episode?

As for the Great River? I hate the Ferengi but they got one thing right: Technocratic Socialism (which is technially what the Federation is) blows when compared to the sweet, sweet sucess of capitalist democracy. Ah, money. :lol:
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:19 pm

thecursor wrote:A one? Feeling generous? How did you even finish that episode?

Well, it didn't have Quark in drag...
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby CX » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:40 pm

^Yeah, but it still had arrogant, bigoted Vulcans, a Starfleet captain belittling his crew when they were only trying to help out, and a moronic activity on the holodeck.

This also brings up the interesting subject of what this disease really is. How did they contract it? Were they deliberately infected, and if so by whom? Other flawed Vorta clones or even some Jem'Hadar? Cardassians? Damar despite his apparent surprise at how the female changeling looked?

The answer to this is so obvious that I'm honestly surprised you didn't think of it. :rasberry: On the other hand, it does show some skill on the part of the writers for having basically pulled the genocide thing out of their fourth point of contact. :mrgreen:

And if the Great Link has been deliberately infected it brings up the issue of genocide and if it can be justified. Much like the Borg there are few, if any, redeeming qualities about the Dominion. In order to defeat them and be really sure that you have, you practically have to exterminate them.

This is actually something that was discussed by that blogger a while back if you remember me posting an excerpt from it. This is an excellent example of how dark DS9 could be, and that in some ways it was actually darker than BSG has been accused of being.

Obviously in TNG, when they discussed and moralized about the idea of committing genocide against the Borg, the goal of TNG was always to show an idealistic and peaceful solution. So basically they tap-danced around it and avoided it completely.

In BSG, they talked about doing the same thing to the Cylon, and even made the decision to do it, but before they could, a character took matters into his own hands and thus the show neatly avoided having to address the issue.

DS9 dove right in and put it right in the viewers' faces. And while the show's main heroes (as in Sisko and the gang) aren't the ones to perpetrate it, a few of them didn't entirely disagree with the ends even if they weren't comfortable with the means. After all, it was war, and as you said, the enemy hardly had any redeeming factors. This is one of the reasons I think DS9 really stands out - they didn't shy away from doing morally questionable things in order to get the point across, because where the other series might've discussed it, DS9 did it.

Anyway, I won't spoil you too much, but I'm looking forward to see what you think of how things develop. :)
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Re: KTR's reflections from another DS9 newbie

Postby thecursor » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:27 am

DS9 had a history of not blinking when it came to the tough questions. My favorite episode continues to be the one where Sisko and Garak work to rope the Romulans into the war, and Sisko's reaction to Garak's solution was perfect.He's horrified and then very accepting. A very real solution to a very realistic problem.

Tales circulate of Berman complaining about the Dominion War story line but I honestly can't think of a Dominion War episode I didn't like. BSG tried to replicate the feel but what made the Dominion War so powerful was watching these "perfect" characters dealing with something very tough and terrible. When the ship is filled with assholes, you don't care as much. I stopped watching BSG because even in a dark story, if there's NOBODY to root for, you stop caring.
"Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, and the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm right square in the eye and he says, "Give me your best shot, pal. I can take it."


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