My TNG reviews

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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Distracted » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:48 pm

Not to try to put words in KTR's mouth or anything, but the reason that I dislike GR's touchy feely happyplace universe is that it's not real enough for me. Life is full of trials, tribulations and conflicts. Good fiction, in my view, showcases how characters overcome these obstacles. Otherwise it's just boring. Reading about or watching stories about perfect people just doesn't interest me. I tend to just roll my eyes and say, "Yeah. Right. Like that could happen." And then I look for something more interesting.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:55 pm

But there was conflict. Okay, so earth didn't have recessions, poverty, and making a buck wasn't the entire definition of success from a societies POV but there were still things to overcome. It wasn't perfect.

Like I said I just don't get it. The idea where society aspires to be more is the whole point. They didn't always make it, but the aspiration was the entire theme of Trek. And if you like Trek you must like that theme at least a little. Otherwise why bother?
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:21 pm

WarpGirl wrote:WOW! 1 season in what 2 weeks. I hope you took snack and drink breaks!

And I'm even halfway through season two by now... :?

Please tell me to buzz off...

Buzz off! :-p

Do you really think it's so horrible to portray a human society where materialistic greed, and other "enlightenments" are goals that people actually work to attain? The best part about Trek's theme is that the "greater good" is something to truly work for. Reading your commentary it seems like it's something you don't approve of.

I cannot really put it better than Dis did:
Distracted wrote:Not to try to put words in KTR's mouth or anything, but the reason that I dislike GR's touchy feely happyplace universe is that it's not real enough for me. Life is full of trials, tribulations and conflicts. Good fiction, in my view, showcases how characters overcome these obstacles. Otherwise it's just boring. Reading about or watching stories about perfect people just doesn't interest me. I tend to just roll my eyes and say, "Yeah. Right. Like that could happen." And then I look for something more interesting.


Second Question: Looking at all of the terrible things that happen in the world, isn't the idea of a society where things like famine caused by corruption and greed are gone, a good thing? (famine is only one example there are other nasty things...)

Communism was a nice idea too, and look how that ended, in totalitarian oppression and genocide. It ignored basic tenets of humanity. I just don't believe such a Roddenberrian "paradise" could happen. Human nature just isn't wired that way.

Third Question: Do you hate Troi because of her profession? I can understand not liking her personality, I don't much like Worf's. But I'm getting the impression that your biggest objection is the fact that she is a mental health professional. I admit it confuses me.

It's pretty hard to separate Troi as a person and as the resident shrink. I admit I'm not too fond of shrinks. As I'm a private person I don't like the idea of someone poking around in my head, let alone a semi-telepathic being like Troi. But I also don't like her personality, spouting banalities about who feels what and when, when it's plainly obvious that the aliens-of-the-week are hostile or whatever. Fine, have a shrink on a starship to talk to the crew if they want to, but don't put her on the frakkin' bridge next to the captain.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:32 pm

Well, at least I admited that my questions were entirely nosey. IDK like I said before, the whole idea behind Trek was the fact that humanity evolves to be enlightened and put the whole above the individual. If you really don't like that theme how do you like Trek at all?

As for shrinks, I'm grateful to them. Some people need the help, even when they are not mentally ill.

But don't overload on Trek, your brain might implode. :-P
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:58 pm

WarpGirl wrote:IDK like I said before, the whole idea behind Trek was the fact that humanity evolves to be enlightened and put the whole above the individual. If you really don't like that theme how do you like Trek at all?

I prefer the early Trek, which didn't intend to present a "perfect society", instead to show that we can strive to be better but ultimately realise we can never get there. Like Kirk said in the episode This Side of Paradise:

"Maybe we weren't meant for paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through. Struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums."

Or in the otherwise forgettable fifth movie The Final Frontier:

"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:31 pm

It isn't perfect in the 24th century though... The 23rd century wasn't so different: there was no wars on earth, no poverty, no rampant crime, no famines, the structure of human society was the same as TNG. I guess what I really don't understand is why watch something when you don't like what it portarys as it's main theme?
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby CX » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:10 am

Personally the arrogant attitude that's presented as the "perfect society" is what gets under my skin. Not only are the humans not perfect, they're frankly smug bigoted assholes who look down their nose at everyone who doesn't share their sense of "enlightenment".
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:49 pm

WarpGirl wrote:I guess what I really don't understand is why watch something when you don't like what it portarys as it's main theme?

Probably because it was set in outer space, on a spaceship often far from the "perfect" home, encountering all sorts of things. A story set on 24th century Earth would be dull as dirt.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:14 am

CX wrote:Personally the arrogant attitude that's presented as the "perfect society" is what gets under my skin. Not only are the humans not perfect, they're frankly smug bigoted assholes who look down their nose at everyone who doesn't share their sense of "enlightenment".


That's why I said it was not a perfect society. But anyone would agree that a world without the crime, poverty, illiteracy, and political strife is better than what we have now.

And in TOS they DID look down their noses at everyone as well. I don't see any difference between Kirk's time and TNG. Yet other people do. I just don't.

But what always touched me was the theme of hope that we can be better.

Do you guys really think that what we've got now, is better than Trek's 24th century? I find that idea scary.
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Distracted » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:48 am

Of course it's not better, but human nature is human nature. Shiny ships and stretchy jumpsuits notwithstanding, no amount of time could possibly change ordinary human beings into the society portrayed in TNG. For example, there's no money, right? What drives the economy, then? Do the ones who produce the goods just give them freely to the others who provide services? Do those who provide services do so out of the goodness of their hearts? Real people just aren't that altruistic. At least not when Big Brother isn't watching. Which is kinda what creeps me out about TNG. What did GR envision about the future? What possibly could have happened to make them all behave that way? It smacks of Orwell's 1984 if you ask me.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:58 am

See now I'm confused. It was never said that there is no money or business in Trek. They have shown characters buying and trading things, even on earth. They have shops, resturants, bars, museums... Why is it everyone says there is no capitalism?

People know what capitalism is DS9 is a Federation and Starfleet instalation. There you spend Money on Holo programs, Quark's Bar, and Garek's shop.

None of this makes sense to me. Picard's family owns, opperates, a vinyard, and they SELL wine. People still make money. Maybe not money like we know now but there is commerace.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby CX » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:31 am

Actually, yeah, it's mentioned a few times that the Federation lacks its own currency, aside from things like "transporter credits" being mentioned every now and again. Picard even says quite explicitly in First Contact that there is no money.

DS9 is a Bajoran station and however Starfleet worked out the administration thing is never really explained. The gold pressed latinum that's mentioned on the show is a Ferengi currency that's used as a standard for trade in that part of the galaxy.

WarpGirl wrote:That's why I said it was not a perfect society. But anyone would agree that a world without the crime, poverty, illiteracy, and political strife is better than what we have now.

Except that the show presented humanity as being perfect and enlightened, which is why it tends to bother quite a few people.

And in TOS they DID look down their noses at everyone as well. I don't see any difference between Kirk's time and TNG. Yet other people do. I just don't.

While I haven't seen much TOS, I can still see something of a difference just in how the characters acted and how humans were portrayed. They also never made a point of trying to repeatedly say that humanity was in any way perfect, unlike on TNG where that was constantly brought up, especially in the first couple of seasons.

But what always touched me was the theme of hope that we can be better.

And I can't get over the arrogance, which is why TNG has aged very poorly for me as I've grown up. Episodes like The Neutral Zone in particular really get under my skin.

Do you guys really think that what we've got now, is better than Trek's 24th century? I find that idea scary.

In some ways, yes, because I find the humanity of TNG to be somewhat scary myself.
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby WarpGirl » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:46 pm

CX wrote:Actually, yeah, it's mentioned a few times that the Federation lacks its own currency, aside from things like "transporter credits" being mentioned every now and again. Picard even says quite explicitly in First Contact that there is no money.

DS9 is a Bajoran station and however Starfleet worked out the administration thing is never really explained. The gold pressed latinum that's mentioned on the show is a Ferengi currency that's used as a standard for trade in that part of the galaxy.


Two things, if the Federation has abosolutely no concept of currency, or commercialism at all. How did Crusher, and Troi, and everybody else, buy all of their goodies over the years? There are multiple episodes where all of the crew bought things. There was some fabric that Crusher bought from an acutual merchant on a Federation world. It's in the premier episode I think...

Also Latinum was mentioned on TNG at least twice. The first time was when they encountered the Ferengie. And a few seasons later Riker is calling up Quark to get something or other, calling him on a debt where he was owed a LOT of latinum. So obviously the Federation did indeed adopt it as a currency.

Another thing Picard said that there was no "money" the currency of earth in the 21st century was different.

My point is people still bought and sold things in TNG there is no evidence to say otherwise.

As for Picard
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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Cogito » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:53 pm

I haven't searched through all the transcripts where currency is mentioned, but I wonder whether it's simply that the federation didn't use cash any more. I think it would be impractical to budget and manage resource allocation without some abstract concept of money.

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Re: My TNG reviews

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:58 pm

They were very inconsistent in the way they talked about money on various Treks. But let's move on to the second season, shall we...


Season Two


2-01 The Child

If I had any hopes that The Next Generation would improve in its second season, that hope was immediately squashed in the first episode. How could anyone even think that The Child would be a good season opener? I know that there was a persistent writers' strike in Hollywood still going on, and that made them dig out an old script from the aborted Star Trek: Phase II series from the 70s, but couldn't they at least have picked another one?

The Child is effectively a rape story, but it's not treated as such. But that's what it is. An alien light being impregnates itself in Troi, and goes through an amazingly fast gestation period and continues growing at an alarming rate after its birth. But all Troi feels is motherly, and the creepy kid-alien was just curious, so it doesn't matter that it violated her. Then he's gone as quickly as he came when he accidentally threatens to have the whole ship infected with some virus they're transporting in the episode's uninteresting b-plot.

At least we see some much needed changes in crew assignments. LaForge is made chief engineer, Worf takes Tasha Yar's old job as head of security and Riker grows a beard. Dr. Crusher leaves off-screen to be replaced by grumpy Dr. Pulaski, who will only last one season. Alas, Wesley chooses not to accompany his mother and stays on the Enterprise. And we see a new ship's bar in Ten Forward, a nice addition, and the barkeeper Guinan, a less nice addition since I can rarely stand Whoopi Goldberg. If they already have a shrink, albeit a pretty useless one, in Troi, why the need for an ersatz shrink in Guinan?

There was a fan outcry when Gates McFadden left and I can understand that. While her Dr. Crusher wasn't that interesting, she was nice to look at (in fact I think she's the babe of The Next Generation, not Deanna Troi even after Troi gets a much needed wardrobe upgrade here) and she has nice chemistry with Picard, although I never shipped for them. I'm torn about Katherine Pulaski. She does come off as abrasive, but that's the point and in fact makes her more human than the other humans. Still, Pulaski never integrates fully with the rest and that seals her fate when Beverly Crusher eventually returns for season three.

The silliness with the skin-tight uniforms for everyone is made evident when they have Pulaski wearing some kind of smock. Apparently her figure wasn't as suited for the unitards. In fact, most people would look dreadful in such outfits and it makes no sense to have them as uniforms. One wonders if only young and well-trained people exist in the future!

But I digress. In the end I cannot give The Child anymore than a measly grade of 1+ on my 10-graded scale.

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2-02 Where Silence Has Lease

This episode started off good but the latter half was disappointing. There was the somewhat intriguing mystery about what that "hole" in space was, and the odd faux ship that Riker and Worf beamed onto. But the revelation was just another God-like Being™ and a sadistic one at that. Why must all beings like that be complete dicks?

I also found it unbelievable that a starship captain would just order the self-destruct like that, and then calmly retreating to his quarters to listen to some classical music. Another captain, like Kirk, would be livid, and I cannot believe that the crew would agree to that. In fact, faux Troi and faux Data made excellent points perfectly befitting what admittedly little we know of their characters, so I see no reason why Picard would think that would be out of character for them.

And I just knew that the poor redshirt at the helm would bite the dust. How transparent!

I'll give Where Silence Has Lease a grade of 3+.

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2-03 Elementary, Dear Data

As far as holodeck episodes go, Elementary, Dear Data is not too bad. Data made a nice interpretation of Sherlock Holmes, especially once he learned what the point of such an adventure was. And the London sets were very well realised.

It is, however, also one of those Holodeck Malfunction™ episodes that will become such a tired staple of modern Trek. We saw it first in The Big Goodbye and I suppose it would be difficult, not to mention boring, to have an episode dedicated to a perfectly functioning holodeck. Still, one has to wonder why these things are even allowed when they so easily can break down, and why there are no real safeties in place so they can be shut down from the outside, or why there even is a possibility to turn off the safeties so that people can actually be killed.

The concept of sentient holograms is indeed intriguing, and will come to its fullest realisation in the Emergency Medical Hologram on Voyager, but really defies belief. The EMH I can accept since he gains self-awareness by virtue of being turned on for a prolonged stretch of time. But Holo-Moriarty gains sentience almost immediately. He even appears to notice the computer arch before LaForge tells it to create an adversary that can even beat Data. Even if we accept that it was LaForge's choice of words that "created" Moriarty, it defies belief that a non-sentient computer could make a holographic character sentient. (Maybe it was just the Bynars' fault?)

It was pretty obvious that the writers were trying to re-create the old Spock-McCoy dynamic with Data and Dr. Pulaski. But it failed. Pulaski just came across as bigoted against artificial life forms like Data, and that isn't an endearing quality.

But I rather enjoyed this episode, even if I found it hard that Picard would allow such a threat to the safety of his ship to remain "alive" even if Moriarty was just stored in the computer's memory banks.

Elementary, Dear Data receives a grade of 6 out of 10 from me.

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2-04 The Outrageous Okona

The only outrageous thing about The Outrageous Okona is how outrageously bad it is. The rogue freighter captain with a heart of gold is an unsuccessful attempt at creating a Han Solo-like character, bedding women left and right (including a young Teri Hatcher). And I can't even begin to care one iota about the star-crossed lovers he's been shuffling back and forth.

Mildly better was the b-plot with Data trying to learn what humour is with the aid of Guinan and the holodeck. But why this need right now when we've seen him struggling with humour before? Just because of a chat with Okona? In the end it felt rather sad to see Data realise he still doesn't get humour, and probably never will.

It earns its grade of 1+ just for that.

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2-05 The Schizoid Man

There is nothing new or remarkable about The Schizoid Man. We have all seen numerous Trek episodes were characters get possessed by other beings. This time it is Data who becomes the lifeline of the terminally ill but brilliant scientist Ira Graves (wonderfully played by W. Morgan Sheppard). While Spiner did a good, end creepy, interpretation of Graves, I missed Sheppard, who has certain mannerisms and especially a very distinct voice.

It was also way to obvious what had happened and Picard and the rest of the crew looked like morons for not figuring it out earlier. Graves-Data wasn't exactly discreet and they knew Graves was a molecular cyberneticist.

It was also odd that there was very little seen of Dr. Pulaski, as she has questioned whether Data is more machine than man, a question the episode deals with since Dr. Graves obviously thinks he has the right to use Data's artificial body. But at least we got to see the hot Vulcan doctor Selar (Suzie Plakson, who comes to play Worf's wife later on).

I'll give it an average grade of 5- on my 10-graded scale.

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2-06 Loud as a Whisper

A legendary deaf-mute peace negotiator arrives to settle a centuries long war only to find himself hampered when his creepy team of interpreters are killed. It could have been interesting, but Loud as a Whisper is excruciatingly dull. The pacing is glacial with too much exposition. If Riva is so well-known (even Worf has heard of him) then how come no one knows that he has this "chorus"? Well, they have to explain this to the audience, that's why - for half an episode.

The other half isn't any better. Now Riva throws a tantrum that it will take a lot of effort to convince he can still be a peacemaker after all. He just has to learn the natives sign language. Colour me unimpressed. Those people don't look like they'd have the patience to do that just so they could speak to a mediator.

I can give no more than a 2- out of 10.

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2-07 Unnatural Selection

I suppose every sci-fi show has to feature the Rapid Aging Syndrome™ in some form or another, and this is The Next Generation attempt. But the problem is that it has become a cliché and an excuse to put people in bad aging makeup. At least there's just Pulaski that has to suffer through it.

Unnatural Selection is, alas, not that interesting. There is a lot of medicobabble and even more technobabble, especially towards the end when they wave the magic transporter wand to purge all infected DNA and return Pulaski to the status quo ante. That's much too convenient and one wonders why someone never thought up such a procedure before for any number of diseases, including aging. Save some DNA from when you're in your prime to use as a filter when you're old and voilà, young again. That's virtual immortality.

Another thing that wasn't even mentioned was that the genetically enhanced children they had created on the ironically named Darwin Station were superhuman, even moreso than Khan and his ilk. But that kind of genetic engineering has been outlawed in the Trekverse ever since Khan and the Eugenics Wars, and for good reason. I guess the writers just forgot that when they wrote this episode.

I'll give this a generous grade of 3.

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