Abrams Trek review thread *HEAVY SPOILERS*

[CX]

Alright, I'm still on the fence about this reboot but I now, honestly believe that I liked the movie.

I really am one of those "something better then nothing" guys and I'm frankly just happy to have some kind of new product rather then just worshiping a dead franchise.

This whole thing has to grow at some point and while I'm still not sure if I actually LIKE the changes, I like having Trek. Period. The good news here is that Abrams is not making a TV show. J.J. Abrams is a better as a film director then a television producer (Lost is unwatchable now, Alias was unbearable after season two, Fringe has some cracks in it)

No offense or anything, but that's the kind of mentality that has made Trek into a mediocre product for so long. For way too long now, the mentality has been that they could put just any old shit out and the Trekkies would lap it up and thank them for it. Sometimes something is not better than nothing, and this is definitely one of those times.

[thecursor]

The following is a matter of opinion and should not be taken as a personal offense against anybody, especially anyone on this board. While it has a few direct references to CX, it's designed more as a general "Blowing off Steam" after I had a similar conversation with two college buddies. I'm just starting to lose that lovably non-partisan, happy go lucky outlook towards this fandom over the reaction the other people in my life have had to this film. I've got nowhere but here and HoT to spout off about this so please don't recognize the obvious anger in this post as directed at anyone other then two gentlemen named Mike and Adam who I'm gonna punch in the face the next time I see them. SO NO FLAMES, let's keep the inevitable response to this civil:

No offense, but the mentality to nit pick and argue about what's good and bad for Trek has been just as harmful. Holding your breath and stamping your feet over every bend in the river gets us no where, case in point Enterprise. Most of the people on this board did like that show otherwise we'd be on the Dollhouse fan board talking about Wheadon's interpretation of Satre and Descartes. But we also remember watching as the mainstream of Trek fans went fucking ballistic over ENT. There are still some people who don't regard that show as canon at all. With good cause at times and no cause at others, Star Trek fans routinely burn down their own house and blame it on the faceless powers that be.

Yeah, I grew up with Trek and loved it all, groaned at some and embraced at others. But the obsession in every little detail leads to a dead franchise, where nothing good or bad gets produced ever. Dr. Who fans will tell you that they'd rather have a slightly gayer show then a twenty odd year vacuum. Imagine that, NO Trek for 20 fucking years. No thank you, I barely dealt with the brief period we just came out of! Did you see what we had instead? Lost which sucks, Transformers which sucks, BSG that was so methodically depressing that it made Berthold Brecht and David Mamet hold an intervention, sub par Star Wars, a Joss Wheadon show that's unwatchable (there's a sentence I never thought I'd write) and other really lame attempts to catch what Trek already had. By the way, that vacuum for Dr Who resulted in a TERRIBLE television movie and a TV series that ran out of steam after Rose left so don't tell me that the vacuum was good for the franchise.

Part of the reason that producers stopped trying was because of how adverse to change we all were. Every little change in the franchise was met with a groan and a "Gene would hate that" from a loud chorus of rather combative mother fuckers. You say "Better that then something I dislike" but ask yourself this: did you really want the whole thing to die at Enterprise? Because that really was what was about to happen. Berman and Braga had run dry (I would argue Braga never had anything to begin with) and we had the worst ratings ever. Didn't anyone else find it ironic that a series about human's embracing change had almost no changes in it and that the fans spent all their time mocking every change that came along? WE DIDN'T just embrace any old thing, we dropped bombs on anything we didn't like for decades, DECADES and the producers listened and stayed middle of the road and it fucking sucked, it really sucked.

You say that my mentality leads to us getting fed any old shit, I say this wasn't any old shit. I was as surprised as anyone but those idiots made an actual swing at the plate. If it was home run or a foul ball is something we'll determine five or six years from now but at this second we've got a franchise with some wind under it. THEY ACTUALLY TRIED! THEY REALLY DID! That's a good thing, people! Celebrate that! Was it old Trek? No, but then if I wanted that then I'd rent Wrath of Khan again or break out my VCR copy of Encounter at Farpoint. I've been looking for a little freshness in Trek for a while and god damn it I got some.

Yeah, I was at the forefront of hating this film but lately I'm wondering why? What was I so afraid of? It turned out not terrible.

Didn't anybody miss having Trek? Wasn't anyone else noticing that, and I'm not disparaging anyone, we were kind of all jerking off? Fan fiction and fan art only works when there's something to to be a "fan" of. I get it. We all invested a lot of time in this and the new changes make my head hurt a too but I'm not willing to turn into one of those sniveling assholes over at TBBS that moan over "Archer should be April" or "Why are we only just now finding out about the Xindi?" Shit, I've still got a fan script that's half written because I lost the steam for this franchise, now I want to finish it, now my head is back into Trek and that's a good thing!

You say the film has plot holes? Name four films and I'll print off a copy of the script, grab a red marker, and show you enough plotholes to drive a truck through! Citizen Kane had a plothole in it, The Godfather had continuity errors. This is fucking STAR TREK, a franchise that has about as much scientific validity as a furry carp and up till now, was as socially relevant as the Kennedy/Nixon debate ("A great moment in television history but not part of the current conversation")

At this point, I was happy it didn't suck as a film and I'm willing to wait and see where it goes as part of Trek. I was happy that I had FUN! That I enjoyed myself! Didn't anybody else enjoy themself? Am I the last old guard Trek fan in the universe who actually liked this movie?

But seriously, people, can we all just stop the bus and say "This wasn't too fuckin' bad" or "It's not as fuckin' bad as it could be"? and if you did think it was bad, was it because you didn't like the movie or because you didn't like where it stands in Trek? If you didn't like the movie, and KTR really didn't, then that's that. But if you hate on it because it's not "Trek" then what is it all worth? What is the point of being a fan of something if being a fan means yelling when it doesn't go your way?

It wasn't perfect but it lit the fire, it lit the fire and we should at least embrace the warm glow.

I never thought this would happen but I'm okay with this movie...also, I'm a Republican who doesn't mind that our president's a liberal moron and I like New Coke and I'm glad that they added extra marshmallows to Lucky Charms and that blue is an M&M color. *huff-puff*

I'm really sorry, I have no idea where that came from, I've just been trying to get that off my chest for a while and the opportunity presented itself. I'm sorry. I beg your pardon. I'm gonna lurk for a while, maybe finally finish Long Night...

[Aquarius]

*high-fives thecursor*

[justTripn]

. . . .those idiots made an actual swing at the plate. If it was home run or a foul ball is something we'll determine five or six years from now but at this second we've got a franchise with some wind under it. THEY ACTUALLY TRIED! THEY REALLY DID! That's a good thing, people! Celebrate that! Was it old Trek? No, but then if I wanted that then I'd rent Wrath of Khan again or break out my VCR copy of Encounter at Farpoint. I've been looking for a little freshness in Trek for a while and god damn it I got some. . . .

Didn't anybody miss having Trek? Wasn't anyone else noticing that, and I'm not disparaging anyone, we were kind of all jerking off? Fan fiction and fan art only works when there's something to to be a "fan" of.

It wasn't perfect but it lit the fire, it lit the fire and we should at least embrace the warm glow.

I never thought this would happen but I'm okay with this movie...also, I'm a Republican who doesn't mind that our president's a liberal moron and I like New Coke and I'm glad that they added extra marshmallows to Lucky Charms and that blue is an M&M color. *huff-puff*

And you say you're inspired to write? You sound inspired! Yes, thank you for sharing! Wow, you can write.

[justTripn]

Here is my immediate reaction, minus the spoiler code (from another thread):

Just like the Onion fans said, it's not profound. No philosophy debated, but it's SO charming. Sort of like the movie with the whales. And exciting, and touching. Many times I laughed or gasped out loud and seeing the ship and a several other moments brought a tear to my eye. Particularly oh . . . I can't give it away even in spoiler. There are some delightful surprises. My husband wanted to know what what the most disappointing aspect of the movie. Well, the horrible science with regard to a black hole. *heavy sigh* Ah well . . . that's Star Trek. And if that's the worst you can say.

The Romulans didn't look very Romulan to me. Hmmm . . . . And a previously unknown relationship between two crew members would probably send some fans through the roof, but not me. That relationship was wonderfully done. Its still Star Trek but it feels Roddenberry-ish in that the crew is young and beautify and sexy and their are nonstop fist fights. Hey, he was about successful TV. It is very youthful and yes, there was eye candy. In a good way. I wonder how a movie with that much death and destruction can leave me so cheerful? But it did.

And my KIDS love it too. How cool is that? DESPITE the options like Transformers and whatnot. I don't know how Abrams did it, but he did it. It has that magical something, like the first three Star Wars, or as I said the Star Trek about the whales. Yes, time will tell if this has staying power, but it was SO charming on a first view.

[CX]

The reason Trek has sucked is because the people making it has consistently underestimated its audience. They think the only people who watch this show are young male teenagers who live in their mother's basements. This is why we get shit like main female cast members running around in catsuits and boob dives. Ever since the end of TNG, the suits in the studio have been trying to find that magic formula that made TNG so popular during its third to six seasons, and they've been trying to get the new shows to be copies of TNG. Ira Behr and Micheal Pillar stuck to their guns for DS9 and the quality the show managed to achieve showed for it.

I've seen a lot of people defend this new movie by bashing on the old ones. That's sad. And while the old movies and series weren't perfect, that's no excuse for any of the brain farts that make up the new movie. Most of the plot holes would have been easy to fix if the people writing it had just put a little thought into it - even people who like this movie have agreed about that, and you'll find "fix the plot-hole" threads on a lot of boards. The thing that floors me is how many fans of this movie seem to think its above any criticism, simply because it is new Trek, and we're just supposed to be satisfied by whatever they give us. I'm sorry, but if a movie sucks, it sucks, and there's nothing wrong in pointing that out. And to be frank, it isn't just the plot holes, it's how the story was told and how the characters were presented. I can't find one positive thing to say about the new movie as far as that goes. Hell, the only positive thing I can say about the movie is that it had excellent marketing.

A lot of the divisiveness about this movie also comes from the fact its a reboot. I've had a lot of arguments about continuity and the like, because some fans seem to think keeping things consistent is somehow too much of a burden, or they might have some other abstract reason for why they think a reboot was needed. Thing is, there was no reason for doing so. Any reason anyone could think of to do it could just as easily been addressed by simply improving the storytelling in whatever they ended up doing that was within the regular universe. So now they've rebooted the movie but haven't improved the storytelling - those are two major things against it in my book.

And one thing that really pisses me off is how somehow, I'm not a fan of Star Trek if I don't like this new movie. :rolleyes: No, I'm not a fan of the new movie. I'm not a fan of Voyager either, and there are a lot of things about ENT I didn't care for either. Even TOS is plenty corny as far as I'm concerned, and there's plenty about it that makes me cringe. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the rest of the franchise, and I sure as hell don't appreciate any suggestion or implication along those lines. Some people seem to think that you literally have to like everything about a show in order to be a fan of it. These are the kind of people who won't admit that it was contrived for all of these cadets to jump right into officer positions, especially Kirk going right up to captain from cadet. The most amusing aspect of that drama is at least one person I know from TrekBBS who wouldn't abide anyone criticizing any aspect to any of the shows before is now bashing the previous series to defend every single thing about the new movie.

So you know what? I'll blow off as much steam as I want about this movie, too. You think something is better than nothing? I don't. Am I not allowed to disagree with you now because you liked the movie?

[thecursor]

No, CX but if this whole thing is just SO unbearable, why bother being pissed off about it? Why bother doing what every fucking Star Trek fan did after Season four of TNG and ruthlessly hate on change? Why not wave good bye and walk away? Most of the problems in Trek would've been easily solved with a little LESS pandering to fans who wanted Trek to be all things at once.

Most of this bashing is about an influx of new fans who didn't like Older Trek but love this newer version...**** them. Who cares what they think, they won't be around for very long anyway. Yeah we all heard the "I wasn't a fan of the other films but" seriously, **** them.

But if you're a life long Star Trek fan, why not enjoy the chance to see something new? If you're a life long Star Trek fan, watched the old shit go down the tubes in to cancellation, why not embrace something new?

I don't think the film is above criticism, but by that same note nothing else in Trek was above it either and we had a lot to be critical of. Weak female characters were a never ending problem for Star Trek, go back to the original series and take one look at Uhura's neck line and tell me that was a strong female character. DS9's "stuck guns" were awfully similar to B5 and while the quality was good it still felt like Edison swiping Tesla. B5 went to war and then DS9 goes to war with a brand new species too? Really?

Of course it was contrived, the whole fucking franchise is contrived. Why is it on Star Trek that in a future of brilliant people the only captain and crew to merit Q's personal response is Enterprise? Why is it that After centuries of flying back and forth in Bajor's orbit it's Sisko and crew that discovers the wormhole? Or the only Changeling who manages to come home happens to be Odo? Or in a room full of trained scientists only Wesley comes up with the answer? Or replicator technology works on a mine but not on a ship? Why not replicate a bunch of ships and defeat the Dominion that way? We the fans typically came up with answers for that not the producers but why is it so hard to do that now? Why does this one film keep us from the usual postulating and debating and we descend into this red flag/blue flag Armageddon?

Shit people take a breath here.

*rubs forehead*

I fucking hate debate. So rather then saying something I'll regret (and considering how many obscenities I've had in the last two posts that's saying something), I'm checking out of this right now. I like it and I think I'm justified, you hate it and think you're justified. Boom, done. If anybody wants me, I'm gonna write a fan fic about Rachel Nichols green boobies and then watch The Wire.

[CX]

No, CX but if this whole thing is just SO unbearable, why bother being pissed off about it? Why bother doing what every fucking Star Trek fan did after Season four of TNG and ruthlessly hate on change? Why not wave good bye and walk away? Most of the problems in Trek would've been easily solved with a little LESS pandering to fans who wanted Trek to be all things at once.

Some people are like that, and those are usually the ones that refuse to acknowledge anything other than the first two seasons of TOS and TMP. See, I'm not like that, because if I find something good, I accept it. That's why I liked DS9 despite all the people who whined about it being on a station instead of a ship. As for why I'm pissed, it's because I do care about the franchise. If I don't like something, I'm vocal about it, I don't just check out like you or others apparently want me to. This is the same reason I said what I did about *the_abomination*, too, only then a lot of you agreed with me and went as far to make some of your own finale fixes. Are any of you really going to begrudge me for being vocally displeased with this movie?

Most of this bashing is about an influx of new fans who didn't like Older Trek but love this newer version...**** them. Who cares what they think, they won't be around for very long anyway. Yeah we all heard the "I wasn't a fan of the other films but" seriously, **** them.

Most people get pissed when they get trolled on a regular basis, especially when the mods join in or at the very least just let it go on.

But if you're a life long Star Trek fan, why not enjoy the chance to see something new? If you're a life long Star Trek fan, watched the old shit go down the tubes in to cancellation, why not embrace something new?

When news of this movie first came out, I was excited like anyone else. Then information started coming out about it, and I started to become more and more concerned about it. Being new isn't enough, it has to be good and this movie isn't - it's every other sucky action-packed brainless remake movie they've been putting out lately. If it wasn't for the budget, this would fit right in with the majority of the B-movies the Sci Fi Channel shows. I'm sorry, but I don't like something just because they slap the "Star Trek" sticker on there.

I don't think the film is above criticism, but by that same note nothing else in Trek was above it either and we had a lot to be critical of. Weak female characters were a never ending problem for Star Trek, go back to the original series and take one look at Uhura's neck line and tell me that was a strong female character.

I've heard this one plenty before, too, and anyone who's known me for any length of time knows that I've been plenty critical of these kinds of things before.

DS9's "stuck guns" were awfully similar to B5 and while the quality was good it still felt like Edison swiping Tesla. B5 went to war and then DS9 goes to war with a brand new species too? Really?

I've heard this before too, but to be honest, as someone who watched both shows when they were first airing, they really weren't any more than superficially similar. They were already making references to the Dominion very early in the show, so claims that they were watching what B5 did and ripped them off are specious at best. And are you really going to do like the others and defend this movie by bashing the rest of the franchise? Come on.

Why does this one film keep us from the usual postulating and debating and we descend into this red flag/blue flag Armageddon?

There comes a point when something just can't be reconciled. Some people look at this as the AU, because that's what it's supposed to be after all, but I've never been one for AUs to begin with. Twilight is insanely popular with the ENT fandom, but I hated that episode too. Not only was it pointless, but it did things to the characters that utterly turned me off to it. Same thing with this movie, only now the episode hasn't ended and it's still going.

[thecursor]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This is officially an impasse (am I even spelling that right?). I'm not budging, he's not budging. It's finished.

[Alelou]

Sounds like a good idea.

Live long and prosper.

[Aikiweezie]

Group hug.

[JadziaKathryn]

I like the science review. Interesting stuff.

What would really happen is the ship would be vaporized from the massive release of energy. Oops! That would’ve made for a dramatic ending to the movie, but not a terribly satisfying one.

Ah, TrekScience.

I agree with the writer, too, about the silence when the crewmember is sucked into space in the Kelvin battle scene. It wasn't just scientifically correct, but quite dramatic.

[CX]

Group hug.

*Clint Eastwood growl*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtk7U-9bUJQ

[thecursor]

Holding a gun on gangbangers....that was my mental picture of CX anyway.

[CX]

Get off my lawn.