Pon Farr Debate - Will they or won't they?

[blacknblue]

A question was brought up regarding something I wrote into my most recent installment of Payment, and I want to get community input.

I have read fanon (not canon) that states a Vulcan in Pon Farr may sometimes, under some conditions, be willing to accept the attentions of a person other than their bonded mate.

Canon is ambiguous on this subject. VOY offers some insight. When Tuvok went into Pon Farr, Paris tried to talk him into taking an alternate and he refused, even though it would cost his life. But it wasn't made clear whether this was due to biology or Tuvok's rigid sense of honor. He did eventually accept the holographic imitation of his wife however. Therefore he was at least biologically capable of mating with a substitute that resembled his wife.

When Be'lanna was sent into Pon Farr by Vorik, she had the option of either mating with Vorik or someone else (like Paris). But she was not Vulcan. Nor was she bonded.

In TOS, T'Pring blatantly announced that she had originally intended to cheat on Spock if he won the challenge. But TOS doesn't state that she was in Pon Farr. Only that she had been drawn to the marriage grounds by her telepathic link to Spock, which informed her that HE had entered Pon Farr. So it is still unsettled.

I can't think of any other canon information at the moment. I would welcome any other references if anyone can remember any.

The specific point in my story that caused the question is where I had MU Trip tell MU T'Pol that he planned to hire someone to help her when her Pon Farr came around again, since he had no intention of letting her get close enough to attack him telepathically. He also suggested that he could easily find someone else to help him when the time came. I also had him cite (my invention) supposed references in Defiant's database that stated the reason he could do this in spite of being bonded was the fact that, being Human, he would take anyone he could get once the fever got hot enough. After he had taken someone else, she would no longer be able to resist.

Is this, or is this not, in defiance of established canon? Input please?

[CX]

Seems to fit into established canon with me well enough, but then I haven't read any of this yet. I'm still just not on the boat with the whole female Pon Farr thing.

[Zane Gray]

I think it depends on the strength of the bond between the two individuals. However, assuming that this were possible, I'm guessing it's unlikely in the extreme.

[Rigil Kent]

I personally find it distasteful and difficult to swallow, as it seems to fly in the face of the purpose of a mating bond. Yeah, I get that it's mostly fanon 'cause the boobs in charge didn't really explain the purpose of the bond, but it seems logical to me (pardon the pun) that the bond is a leftover from the "Old Days" and is intended to enforce fidelity, so this seems like a too easy way to get around it. I thought the entire point of the blood fever was to rob the Vulcan of his control & reason; therefore, instinct would be driving him, and based on how Spock reacted to Chapel, I'd presume that he would get murderously violent toward the "other."

You'll note that I don't even reference the silliness of the Polly!Farr cliche in my reasoning.

[blacknblue]

Murderously violent toward a rival, yes. No dispute there.

I was asking whether there is anything in canon to refute the idea that a Vulcan in plak tau would rather die than accept someone besides their bonded mate, if their bonded mate was not available for some reason.

[Rigil Kent]

Given how wildly inconsistent canon is with pretty much anything you're probably safe doing what you want. Somewhere, there will be something that you can use to back up your approach.

[hth2k]

It may be interesting should he have that plan and find out that he indeed cannot take another female due to mentally induced hydraulic failure with anyone other then T'Pol?

HtH

Warning: Continued exposure without appropriate precautions may cause damage.

[Elessar]

Because of the Vorik instance, I think you can assert that it IS possible to avert the blood fever with mating of any kind... as distasteful as it may seem, I think it's biologically valid. Clearly, since Vorik was able to get through the Pon Farr with a holographic representation of his wife, it can be done and there doesn't have to be a telepathic link. However, it is worth noting that the problematic circumstances of Vorik's real wife feeling his experiences within the bond is presumably (and understandably) not a problem given the tremendous distance between Voyager and Vulcan. Even though Trip and T'Pol's is clearly capable of establishing a connection over several light years, several, and 70 thousand, are a big difference, so it's arguable that it's simply the distance which prohibited that from being a problem for Vorik.

Of course it goes without saying that you have to accept Voyager as canon in order to accept that. A lotta people don't like Voyager in regard to continuity, but it's just up to you, you either take it for what it is or make something else up that sounds plausible. In my opinion, "continuity" and "lack of imagination" are often interchangable, because in science fiction you have so much leeway in that you're talking about an external, artificial creation of the human imagination - Vulcans. Therefore, you can say and rationalize anything you want. Even given the amount of material on Vulcans through all of Trek, you can write something that completely flies in the face of established canon on any issue but rationalize it such that it fits with what Vulcans are as creatures, even if it doesn't AGREE with what's previously been said, just by citing the influence of a new circumstance that wasn't previously present in the circumstances which gave rise to what we consider canon. That's always been my philosophy about Vulcans. If that didn't make sense, then what I mean is this: You could say that, although in the past it has been made clear that the Blood Fever can be quenched by mating with a non-mate, i.e., the hologram for Vorik, the proximity of Trip and T'Pol to each other makes the bond stronger and therefore they'd necessarily feel it if they had sex with other people. This might make sense to everyone, but it is in no way derived from canon because the only time Trip and T'Pol have become aware of each other telepathically is when T'Pol is meditating on Enterprise, and so her mental state is exceedingly calm and focused, and Trip is day dreaming on Columbia, and hence his mental state is unusually focused. The first point is that we don't have any examples of their connection being enhanced or especially potent in regards to transmission of information when they're in close proximity. Not only that, in those circumstances, nothing about their external conditions were observable to the other... Trip couldn't feel the heat of the candle in front of T'Pol as she meditated, T'Pol couldn't smell the grease and fumes of Engineering around Trip as he worked on Columbia. I'm not attacking the whole sense of the bond being able to transmit thoughts, images, even sensory perceptions -- but what I AM saying is that it's NOT canon. We can go ahead and accept it ourselves but we can't use that and say it's canon and attack another idea with it, at least not with any consistency. We can say we don't LIKE them having sex with other people because according to our fanon interpretation of the Bond they would feel it, but it's not really canon. My primary point is that all of this is up to us and what we want to accept because you can re-write the rules in a rational fashion that "makes sense", without it agreeing with canon per se. Canon is just somebody more influential's fanon

[pookha]

it isnt that it is inconsistent but rather we dont even know for sure if the bethrothal bond is the same as a mate bond ..
or if the linkage that starts pon farr in female (ie blood fever) is also different from a mating bond.

in my fanon they are different things.
the bethrotal bond is more like a homing signal but dosnt have the layers of empathy ect you would expect with a mating bond.

i also dont think what vorik did to torres is a mating bond either.
i mean it didnt bond her to him but rather sent her after paris.

from what tles said the mating bond develops with time (why i think it takes more then one sexual encounter) and could be viewed as a reason the couple spends the first year together.

but in terms of your story..
as i said very little for sure is known and plus this is the mirror universe.
you could just say that the bond is twisted there in a way it isnt in ours.

now for a bit of wild speculation..
the vulcans could have something set up in the case where one of the mates is ill and couldnt deal with pon farr.
there may be a reason some of those prietess dressed the way they did in search for spock.

[cherryblossomjen]

Because of the Vorik instance, I think you can assert that it IS possible to avert the blood fever with mating of any kind... as distasteful as it may seem, I think it's biologically valid. Clearly, since Vorik was able to get through the Pon Farr with a holographic representation of his wife, it can be done and there doesn't have to be a telepathic link. However, it is worth noting that the problematic circumstances of Vorik's real wife feeling his experiences within the bond is presumably (and understandably) not a problem given the tremendous distance between Voyager and Vulcan.

Do you mean Tuvok here, Elessar? I don't recall Vorik having a wife back home.

Also, do most Vulcan couples have strong telapathic bonds? If I ever knew I don't recall.

[cherryblossomjen]

The specific point in my story that caused the question is where I had MU Trip tell MU T'Pol that he planned to hire someone to help her when her Pon Farr came around again, since he had no intention of letting her get close enough to attack him telepathically. He also suggested that he could easily find someone else to help him when the time came. I also had him cite (my invention) supposed references in Defiant's database that stated the reason he could do this in spite of being bonded was the fact that, being Human, he would take anyone he could get once the fever got hot enough. After he had taken someone else, she would no longer be able to resist.

Is this, or is this not, in defiance of established canon? Input please?

Was the Tucker in your story serious, or was he just saying it to get a rise out of T'Pol?

From what I remember of the engineering scene in "In a Mirror, Darkly" MU Tucker (and T'Pol for that matter) thrived on provoking eachother, pushing eachother's buttons. RU Trip and T'Pol like to argue but MU Trip and T'pol love it, albeit in a dark, twisted way.

Anyway, what I'm asking is, does the Trip in your story actually intend to go through with his idea, or is he just using it as fodder for the flames in his attempt to provoke T'Pol?

If the latter is the case, it wouldn't matter as much if it were possible or not.

[Linda]

That holographic women did not satisfy Vorik's mating urge. He still went after Be'Lanna. His Pon Farr ended when she fought him and beat him up. So that is one canon way of solving the problem: beating the crap out of the poor Vulcan male, LOL. Or, like in Spock's case in Amok Time, giving him a deep shock like the fact that he thought he just killed his best friend and Captain. Ya gotta abuse that Vulcan to bring him out of it without mating, it seems.

[CoffeeCat]

Given how wildly inconsistent canon is with pretty much anything you're probably safe doing what you want. Somewhere, there will be something that you can use to back up your approach.

I think you just about summed it up here, Rigil. LOL


Oh, and...



Totally irrelevant to the conversation, but it cracked me up anyway...

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

That holographic women did not satisfy Vorik's mating urge. He still went after Be'Lanna. His Pon Farr ended when she fought him and beat him up. So that is one canon way of solving the problem: beating the crap out of the poor Vulcan male, LOL. Or, like in Spock's case in Amok Time, giving him a deep shock like the fact that he thought he just killed his best friend and Captain. Ya gotta abuse that Vulcan to bring him out of it without mating, it seems.

Well, they only way to satisfy a plak tow is sex or violence, otherwise known as the koon-ut-kal-if-fee - marriage or challenge. The latter is what got Vorik and B'Elanna to snap out of it, and Spock too. It wasn't the shock of having killed his friend Kirk that made Spock overcome it. It was the fact that he had been in a violent fight.

[CX]

Seems to me that Spock said it was the thought that he had killed his friend that made him find he was no longer interested in T'Pring.