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For sure someone wanted Trip out of the way. How else can you explain his stupid suicide?

Who? My vote is for Bragga. I still believe that Bragga may have liked the character of trip but didn't like what Conner had done with it. Made Trip the best loved character on the series. Made Trip BIG. Doubt if that was Bragga's intention. I feel he wanted Archer to be what Trip became. Certainly there was every effort to make the series a one Hero series. The Hero being Archer.

so, the Abomination not only was the one fingered salute to the fans but an effort to clean up a loose end for Bragga.

SB

Silverbullet wrote:For sure someone wanted Trip out of the way. How else can you explain his stupid suicide?

Who? My vote is for Bragga. I still believe that Bragga may have liked the character of trip but didn't like what Conner had done with it. Made Trip the best loved character on the series. Made Trip BIG. Doubt if that was Bragga's intention. I feel he wanted Archer to be what Trip became. Certainly there was every effort to make the series a one Hero series. The Hero being Archer.

so, the Abomination not only was the one fingered salute to the fans but an effort to clean up a loose end for Bragga.

SB

I too think things can be in this way.

Sigh. I think it's just an awful way to end a series, and probably a symptom of enormous petulance at the suits that shut the shown down, but the reality is that the finale was largely focused on Trip as the person everyone loved and also contained about a million ways to reset and start over if the opportunity ever arose.

In other words, your theory that this was about Braga hating Trip is about as likely as The Wrath of Khan being Nicholas Meyer's nasty, petty way of shitting on Spock.

Alelou wrote:I think it's just an awful way to end a series, and probably a symptom of enormous petulance at the suits that shut the shown down, but the reality is that the finale was largely focused on Trip as the person everyone loved and also contained about a million ways to reset and start over if the opportunity ever arose.

If one wants to be magnanimous, one may also think that this may correspond to reality. Unfortunately I am not magnanimous.

Alelou wrote:probably a symptom of enormous petulance at the suits that shut the shown down

That is how it has always seemed to me. But then, given the way the writers treated their lead characters throughout the show, it may simply have been an enormous misjudgment. Really, can you see them showing that the only significant relationship in the show withered and died, killing off one of the most popular characters pointlessly, showing that everyone else carried on without being particularly affected by his death, and really believe they thought this would leave fans with fond memories of the series? Yes, I believe they really could have been that far divorced from reality. The alternative is that they set out to make the last episode as unpalatable as possible, and I'm too charitable to think that of them. No, I think it must have been incompetence rather than malice.

Mebbe so. But let's say that Bragga and Berman THOUGHT they might have a chance of talking TPTB in to a fifth and sixth season. If so, trip is gone and super Archer has the field all to himself without that annoying Trip and t'Pol relationship. Not to mention that annoying Trip who looked great when given the chance to shine a little.

What causes me to hate a character is one who hogs the whole series. Archer fro one and lately Gibbs in NCIS, he too is becoming the lone hero for that series.

Given what I have read about Bragga (trying to get in to Jeri Ryans pants among oter things.) I can believe he would kill off Trip because he hated what Conner had made him

So am alone in this but never mind.

SB

I'm afraid I'm not quite as charitable as Cogito. I think the Killer-B's made *the_abomination* deliberately shit. They were more or less ousted at the end of season three and Manny Coto took over. I don't think it was their suggestion, know what I mean? To add insult to injury Coto did a massively better job at it. For a 'shippers heart season 4 was nothing but pure frustration and totrture, but in just about everything else, the season four episodes blow just about the whole rest of the series into the middle of last week.
Now I have absolutely no idea, who had the massive brain fart to allow the same people to write the final episode that had been ousted a year before for being utter shit at their jobs They must have known it would be a train wreck. B&B were jealous, IMHO. Jealous that someone else had taken over their series and made a massively better job at it. It's of course a tad rude to insunuate that they did it deliberately, but the sheer and utter shittiness of the episode suggests it. That whole thing has absolutely no redeeming attribute or scene apart from the 3 cpatain speech at the end. Nobody writes something so abysmal by accident. It must have been deliberate.

Kotik wrote:Nobody writes something so abysmal by accident. It must have been deliberate.

Apparently I am not the only one who is not magnanimous.
Now, considering also what Silverbullet says (which is anything but meaningless), and also Cogito's words (mh... perhaps it's useful to add that I don't succeed in being as charitable as him, even if, to tell the truth, I have the distinct feeling that it is only his refinement, courtliness and innate kindness to make him talk like that), maybe it comes not to lack of magnanimity, maybe it comes to mental lucidity.

I speak from the heart. None of the Abomination made any sense at all. Least of all the Trip and T'Pol parting.

I could have lived without Archers speech quite well thank you.

hat stuff about Shran.........

Trip's suicide? come on. He could have set that off and been out of there before the thing exploded.

As I said we and TPTB got a massive middle finger salute.

With a "up your royal Red Rectum."

Course I might be unkind.

SB

There are plenty of reasons not to like *the_abomination* or the ideas behind it. Also the timing of the episode was very bad. In Twilight I see the same ideas and views as in *the_abomination*, and lot of people seem to like that episode (not me). After the emotional Terra Prime *the_abomination* made even lesser sense.

But I don't think B&B made *the_abomination* to annoy the fans. That would be very strange. In TNG there are some episodes they wrote that seemed to be intended to criticize some fans, but to make a whole episode just out of spite for your fans - the one who are responsible for your success (and money) - that doesn't make sense to me.

For example I think B&B thought holograms were a good idea, asking Riker and Troi back was a good idea and having Archer as hero was a good idea.

I don't think B&B said to each other "Give me five or ten points to annoy the fans - let say holograms, fat Riker, Deanna Troi, Trip is going to die, enormous plot holes, TnT split up, Archer gives T'Pol a huge, Rike gives T'Pol a kiss on the cheek - because we dislike them so much".

I don't think B&B are the kind of writers that would deliberate plan to give their fans the finger. I don't think the fans were on their mind when they wrote the piece. B&B probably liked to write a story with their own ideas that they thought were good - and didn't get that their ideas would create an episode that would offend so many people.

With all due respect Panyasan, I disagree with your premise. BnB knew what they were doing would irritate the fans. They just couldn't get their injured egos out of the way.

><((((º> stop now there is a rant forming

Panysanne (sp) you are so kind.

Unfortunately, the way the abomination is written it couldn't do anything but annoy the fans. I for one do not believe is was accidental.

Obviously, the reason B&B got the boot in season four was because of the fans dislike of what they were doing. so many coto was given the series. that must have made at least one of the killer bees mad enough to want to get back at the fans.

In the Abomination the f break up a long standing elaltionship that was cemented by the bond. I cannot see T'Pol kissing off Trip that way. It was too cold even for her. I certainly don't see Trip taking it and not fighting for her.

Trip's suicide. utter stupidity. Senseless. Most popular character on the series and you off him. No way.

The way the others were treated. they weren't even given common courtesy. Not to mention no promitionion all of the time they were in the series. Hell from ensign to Lt JG is automatic and then to Lt almost automatic.Hoshi and Travis both should have been at lest JG;s if not Lt by the end of the series.

Archer, you either liked him or you didn't. He was not a great commander or officer. but he was the Captain regardless and now he gets promoted, even if no one else does. UP to Admiral.

What in Hell were Riker and Troi doing in a final for Enterprise. they were in TNG not Enterprise.

With all of those r things it could not have been an accident. the abomination had to be a deliberate slap in the face for the fans.

SB

Did BnB deliberately give the finger to Enterprise fans? I don't know, but a strong case can be made for believing that (the "it was so bad it had to be deliberate" argument). And yes, it WAS that bad.

On the other hand, there is an equally strong argument to support the other camp (the "they were trying to make a good episode but just didn't get it right" argument). Panyasan and Alelou (among others) have made an effective case for this.

Which is it? I don't know, nor does it really matter to me. It's damning for BnB no matter how you look at it: Are they petty and vindictive, or just clueless and incompetent? It's got to be one or the other; no middle ground here.

If I may, Panyasan.
Let's see a little.

First possibility. Our Authors did not want to minimally irritate the Fans. Okay. But they did, and, consequently, the least we can say is that they haven't shined by sagacity, and I am trying not to speak rough. Actually they have reached a goal exactly opposite of what they had planned, admitting that this commendable intention, was really their intention.
Let's face it, this doesn't speak well in favour of them.

Second possibility. For unfathomable reasons, and of which I prefer not to speak, they deliberately made the crime of murdering, in one fell swoop, Trip, T'Pol, their love, Shran, Its Majesty The Plausibility (even the tenuous trace of this that can be found in Star Trek), Enterprise and the entire Star Trek.
I do not think that even in this case, someone can speak on their favour.

The fact is, ultimately, that in the first case they have made a mortal sin.
In the second case they have sinned mortally.

A couple questions:

Was anyone happy that Trip and T'Pol broke up? That she said she had not felt the bond that much (baloney in my opinion) That she was going her way and expected Trip to do the same?

Was anyone happy that Trip committed suicide? That he died a stupid, useless death for no reason at all.

does anyone believe that it was Shran and Archers job to take care of those guys that Trip blew up, not Trip.

Does anyone agree with Riker and Troi being in this episode and almost dominate it?

Just asking

SB