What happened?

[Silverbullet]

T'Pol dropped her robe, seduced Trip and the next morning handed him his head on a platter.

In a story (I dumped) I had T'Pol wanting to go to Trip and apologize. but she couldn't allow herself to do that. Instead, that night she crawled in to her white space and cried the whole night through because of what she had done to him and her refusal to apologize. I had her do that three nights in a row. then she steeled herself to go along the path she had set.

Anyone have any thoughts on what T'Pol might have done? did she have regrets, did she want to apologize but couldn't. would she have cried for her actions?

SB

[panyasan]

In my story Lies of Breakfast I try to explain her actions (In the thoughts of T'Pol her actions will lead to certain strong emotions, to chaos and destruction, to Trip's destruction) and overwhelmed by this, she pushes him away in the shower (after the love making) - then the alarm goed off and we get the breakfast.

She regrets her action afterwards and wants to go to him. But her fear keeps her in her room.

(I have a second chapter (and even third) from Trip's POV in my mind for a long time, but couldn't find the right tone. A couple of days ago I finally did! It's a different explanation).

[Distracted]

IMO, soggy sobbing just isn't T'Pol's style. I can't see her crying herself to sleep for three nights in a row even under the influence of trellium-D. Maybe a few private restrained tears, as we saw in the series at the death of a loved one or the permanent loss of a close relationship, but her emotions should, IMO, stay internal. She's Vulcan, for Pete's sake. As writers and ST fans I think it's our duty to portray her that way despite the way the series writers completely screwed up the character.

[Asso]

My "Depths" explains my ideas about that. I think.

[Alelou]

I think I've probably done my version of that in fanfic already -- at least twice, if not more -- but I think there are many possible options. And the way they played that scene -- especially the end of it -- makes me think it wasn't as much of a head on the platter delivery as some guys like to think it is. Trip gets T'Pol, and although he surely gets thrown off stride by her, by the end of that scene he's pretty sure she's full of caca.

You can't say Trip gives up very easily, anyway. You really pretty much have to go marry some other guy to persuade him there's no hope -- and even then, he can be persuaded to give you a shot again. Maybe even two. Or three.

[Kotik]

I hate that breakfast scene with a passion, because it shows Trip throwing his last bit of self-respect away. Any woman, who beds me and then calls it off as an experiment the next morning has seen the last of me. But what does Trip do? We comes back begging for more abuse. It was just a horrible piece of writing

[Asso]

If I remember correctly, it was already discussed about the manner in which the scene of the "morning after" has been written. and, again if I remember correctly, everyone was in agreement in saying that it was one of the worst things you ever been given to see.
And think about the fact that in the minds of the authors, it should have been fun!

[Alelou]

Clearly Kotik and T'Pol were not meant for each other.

Trip does put up with a lot that many guys wouldn't. But you could argue that he's just very smart about what she's up to, and knows what he wants.

There is a meme or archetype in romantic literature of the shy or prickly or lowborn or poor or ugly or something-else-that-ought-to-rule-her-out female who nonetheless somehow manages to retain her fascination for the handsome leading man, even though common sense would suggest to him that he could do better elsewhere. Trip and T'Pol fit into that archetype beautifully. I think that archetype has tremendous appeal to all we flawed female readers who hope that some hero will put up with us someday (or continue putting up with us), while the average guy looks at it and says, "Why is this dude putting up with this shit? He can do so much better!" But where would be in literature or television without the couples who fight and bicker and misunderstand their way to the altar? (Besides, what do you think happens once anyone gets married? The chances you'll get through that without some serious conflict from time to time are pretty slim.)

I think that scene IS fun. Maddening for shippers, but fun. They could have gone anywhere from there, including right back into the sack again.

[Silverbullet]

A;e;ou, as I said, I dumped the story.

However, once T'Pol is in her white space she can drop her control safely and give way to emotions. Remember that her emotions were always close to the surface. Perhaps I am just a sloppy romantic.

SB

[Kotik]

Alelou, I can see were you're coming from, but I think it was way too drawn out to make it interesting. I mean, at the time of "Daedalus" the hammer would fall for any guy with just a shred of self-respect. I agree that a love-at-first-sight story would have been a lot less entertaining, but things like Harbinger and Home broke the camel's back. The whole thing was drawn out beyond realistic bounds. Trip had his strong scenes in season 4, but the whole will-they-won't-they doo-dah made him look very weak as a man. At times he was reduced to a begging doormat. (of course that's strictly my opinion, others might think differently)
I also find it hard to believe that any woman would find such a man really attractive. He hasn't got any problems in the looks department, but can a man, who lets someone whack him hither and tither like that, really be attractive to a woman?

[Distracted]

I think maybe you're preaching to the wrong crowd, Kotik, since many of us females are here precisely because we're attracted to the character.

[Asso]

So let's see.
A boy (Trip) who wants to talk about feelings and is kicked in the corner by a frigid female. A boy (Trip) who does not know to do better than to swallow the bullet and suggest something that with feelings has nothing to do.
A girl (T'Pol) who shows the worst side that a female can show. A girl (T'Pol) who, after the suggestion of Trip, shows clearly that there is something (certainly not a true feeling) that it's possible to continue to do.
Where the hell's the fun in all that? This is the worst of the archetypes that continue to haunt us because of uncreative writers.

[Alelou]

Everyone has their own interpretation of T'Pol and her emotions, and of Trip and his patience level. If you want to have her crying herself to sleep in her white space for three nights, you can do that. If you want Trip to go off in disgust or erupt in righteous fury the way YOU would like him to do, you can do that. Personally, I probably won't get all the way through those stories, because that's not how I see those characters. Other folks will stand up and cheer for them.

This is part of the reason I'm happy not to be a fanfic admin anymore.

I'm not going to argue that Season 4 didn't draw the angst out (as in Daedalus) far beyond reason, but Harbinger was a bon-bon compared to that. "Home" is my second-favorite episode. Everyone's mileage varies. There's a certain amount of romantic suspense that has to be maintained on television. The question is just when it finally jumps the shark once and for all. If you thought it had already done that in Harbinger, oh man -- you were really screwed!

[Kotik]

It didn't jump the shark at the time of Harbinger. For me it did with the contrived marriage in "Home". It was illogical beyond belief. Koss insisted on fulfilling tradition only to violate it by letting her leave a contrail right after the ceremony. The really bad thing however was that it wasn't explained, even after it's anulment. That wasn't any useful tension or suspense, it was just a contrived plot tool to avoid having to write a functioning romance for another 5 episodes. Trip's handling of it (staying for the ceremony) was one of the few strong moments he has in that "relationship".

[Asso]

Sorry, Alelou, but I think yours is a non-response to my arguments. In fact, I think you're talking about something else. At least this is my impression.