Court Martial

[Distracted]

What a sweetie. He doesn't hate me.

[WarpGirl]

If I didn't know better I'd think Rigil was someone I knew from the KOTOR boards, but that person hated Trek with a passion. Still the resemblence is uncanny.

[Distracted]

Hard to tell with the hood, but I'm pretty sure his avatar isn't actually a picture of Rigil, so what "resemblance" are you talking about, WG?

[WarpGirl]

I call it online presence. The gentleman I knew in the KOTOR world was also Ex-military, had no patience for a poorly done arguement, loved writing explosions, battles, and death, and a darn good romance that wasn't all that mushy at all. And proudly declared himself a misanthorpe. In fact he pretty much used the exact same words. But I was not the one to call him a misogynist. Really uncanny, but there's no way it's the same person.

[lfvoy]

If you judge officers by our standards today, then every single Starfleet officer we've seen deserves a court martial. And Trek clearly doesn't follow the same rules as reality.

Neither would they be able to keep their jobs in the civilian world, either in the public or private sectors. Not even Travis, who has some initiative problems. And WarpGirl, I've seen what happens in real life when fraternization rules get broken in a non-military work environment. I hope I'm the only one on this board who has. It ain't pretty. /hr geek

[WarpGirl]

I think that there's no winning a debate about Frat regs for either side. Both arguements are right, and both are wrong. I personally don't see the point when the feelings are going to happen anyway. You can't have people stuck together day after day and avoid messy relationships.

[Silverbullet]

Not sure T'Pol deserves anything for the trellium abuse. That did not interfere with her ability to do her duties. She was not affected in any way that stopped her from performng her duties at any time. Given that she was not obligated to inform either ARcher or Starfleet about the ABuse of Trelllium. Neither was Phlox as he could claim Doctor Patient confidentiaty.

As far as the deaths at Azati Prime they accoured when she was acting as commander of Enterprise and they happend in batle. She could not be held accountable for those.

SB

[Cogito]

Not sure T'Pol deserves anything for the trellium abuse. That did not interfere with her ability to do her duties. She was not affected in any way that stopped her from performng her duties at any time.

I wish that was so, but from what we saw of T'Pol at that time she was a complete wreck and in no fit state to be XO let alone lead the ship into combat. To be realistic, it would be inconceivable for the chief medical officer not to inform the captain when a senior officer was in that state. It was shameful, and on T'Pol's behalf I still resent the writers doing that to her character. It seems to me they took somebody who should have been the strongest and most reliable character on the ship, and did everything possible to portray her as weak and ineffectual. Grrr!

I happily gloss over all that, because in my mind what we were shown was not the true T'Pol.

[putaro]

I'd pin Azati Prime on Archer myself. He had no business going off on a suicide mission and he left T'Pol with a no-win scenario. Blowing up the listening post was a major mistake as well - there were only three Xindi there, he should have beamed down a team of MACOs to take it over. Of course the Xindi would get suspicious when a monitoring station is no longer reporting in .

[WarpGirl]

Since our dear Transwarp is busy getting re-settled with his family, and getting back into the swing of things at home after being in Afganastan so long, I am goingto be presumptuous and give his arguement...

One tiny thing: in the scene with Phlox, the dialogue implies that T'Pol's trellium usage was responsible for the deaths of eighteen crewmen. I seem to be in the minority (again), and I have stated this at more length elsewhere, but I can not find anything T'Pol did wrong during the battle, or see anything that Archer could have done differently (had he been in command) to affect a different outcome. Sure, she was a jerk to Trip, afterwards, but the trellium screwed with her emotional control, not her logical facilities. Just a minor peeve of mine.

My opinion: her control was compromised therefore, she wasn't completely up to the task. Would things have been different without the TD? That's a question that cannont be answered. Maybe nothing would have changed. But she was still compromised. Period.

[Cogito]

I'd pin Azati Prime on Archer myself. He had no business going off on a suicide mission and he left T'Pol with a no-win scenario. Blowing up the listening post was a major mistake as well - there were only three Xindi there, he should have beamed down a team of MACOs to take it over. Of course the Xindi would get suspicious when a monitoring station is no longer reporting in .

Agreed on both counts.

In hindsight, I wonder whether Archer's inability to delegate (in general, but also specifically here) is why in TNG command staff had to demonstrate that they were willing to order somebody to their death if necessary. Because Archer plainly wasn't; he showed that repeatedly.

[Silverbullet]

T'Pol ws able to perform her duties. she took command of Enterprise when Archer left on his suicide mission. Archer trusted her then and did not appear to feel she was incompetent.

The TD addiction just affected her ability to get along with the crew better especieally Trip

SB

[putaro]

My opinion: her control was compromised therefore, she wasn't completely up to the task. Would things have been different without the TD? That's a question that cannont be answered. Maybe nothing would have changed. But she was still compromised. Period.

There's a question of what standard someone should be held to - their own personal best or the expected best for their group. If T'Pol had been commanding a Vulcan ship, allowing herself to become emotional would certainly be grounds for discipline. However, on a Human ship, was she performing below par compared to any of the other officers if they'd been in command?

[Cogito]

Archer trusted her then and did not appear to feel she was incompetent.

I'm not sure that Archer was sufficiently rational at that point to consider what situation he was leaving the Enterprise crew in. It seems to me that he could see no way out of the situation and his suicide mission was as much a way to avoid responsibility for that as it was a desperate last attempt to stop the weapon.

He left the remaining crew in an impossible situation. The situation was desperate before he abandoned his command. But perhaps with T'Pol in command instead of Archer they were better off? Or at least they should have been, if T'Pol hadn't been out of her head on mind-altering drugs by then. As it was, T'Pol had no plans, no idea what to do, and simply sat there waiting for Archer to succeed or fail, until eventually the ship was discovered. At that point, of course, it was too late to do anything.

[WarpGirl]

There's a question of what standard someone should be held to - their own personal best or the expected best for their group. If T'Pol had been commanding a Vulcan ship, allowing herself to become emotional would certainly be grounds for discipline. However, on a Human ship, was she performing below par compared to any of the other officers if they'd been in command?

I probably shouldn't even be talking about this because well... Let's face it, I'm not good at it. But, while T'Pol might not have done anything tactically wrong the emotions were clouding her judgement. IF she had had her full control she might have been able to think of other solutions. The fact is the questions can't be answered. Should she be court marshaled for it... Yes. Simply because she knew that the TD was harming her. It's the same if a doctor treats a patient under the influence, even if he doesn't screw up, it's still wrong.