"Missing scenes from Season Four" discussion

[panyasan]

The first chapter of Missing scenes from Season Four by Alelou just have been posted at TRIS.
It's a wonderful story with interesting story lines and ideas, so great stuff to discuss.

I liked the first chapter a lot, maybe because Trip seems to be so on top of this, confusing T'Pol with his words and actions. I thought that was rather funny.

I also liked the fact that Trips brain seems to have develop itself rather uniquely (the reference of Similitude was a nice touch).

But what did doctor Phlox see in his brain that made him cough? Some first signs of a telepathic bond?
And shouldn't Phlox have told Trip? It would have saved him (and T'Pol) a lot of trouble.

What do you think?

[Cogito]

I was intrigued by that, too.

[Silverbullet]

This reluctance of Phlox to give Trip and T'Pol important information is one of the cliches I was talking about in a story of mine. White hot needles under his fingernails can't get him to talk. It is the kind of information that would help Trip and T'Pol so naturally Phlox won't tell them. that is an old tired cliche from the past. Usually after the two find out about it Phlox would say "I knew that"


SB

[Alelou]

For those who were puzzling about what Phlox saw in that brain scan, I have to say that I don't believe Phlox is an expert in Vulcan mating bonds. Judging from what we see in canon from T'Pol, a scientist, not even Vulcans of this era are knowledgeable about them. However, even today our own human researchers can detect feelings of romantic attachment in a brain scan. So maybe Trip's brain is being re-wired by Vulcan bond mojo, or his surgery, or maybe he's just currently feeling ga-ga for someone, or any combination thereof. You may draw your own conclusions.

This note is from the author's notes in the next chapter (since SB appears to be accusing me of committing a cliche, I just had to jump in).

Mind you, please feel free to accuse me of anything. I'm a tough old broad.

Whatever is going on there, a doctor would be seriously breaching confidentiality if he went into detail about any of this in front of someone not authorized to hear it. He shouldn't really have said anything that didn't relate to clearing Trip for duty.

So did you hear about the guy who wanted to take his new wife on a long adventure -- I think it was biking -- then return for a brain scan and check that they were still romantically in love with each other? I'm not making this up. Their names were Mike and Alanna Clear. (And no, I'm not entirely certain this was not just a great big marketing ploy on their part.) If I recall correctly, it didn't turn out the way they expected.

[Cogito]

Yes, there's no way Phlox should have mentioned anything in T'Pol's presence apart from declaring Trip fit for duty. Evidently he realised this as he was speaking - I wonder if perhaps they don't have the same attitude to medical confidentiality on Denobula.

You may draw your own conclusions.

Thank you! What Phlox was going to say, was ...

"That, and he appears to be somewhat aroused ..."

[panyasan]

I didn't know you can actually see that someone is in love by looking at his brain. Learned a new thing. I liked the idea that Trips brain was altered by the surgery in the Expanse and of course Phlox couldn't tell T'Pol about his medical condition, but I can imagine him to mention this with Trip.

Liked the stroking of T'Pol of Porthos, nice touch of what we have seen what that famous scene when she is comforting the dog.

[Silverbullet]

Not sure but wasn't Trip's brain re-wired in a Vulcan configuration. Phlox would see and know that as he had studied medicine on Vulcan. So if Trip's brain is now similar to a Vulcn there would only be one cause of that, T'Pol. Have to go back and review the episode. Often one can miss small details, subtle details that are put in by the writers.

sometimes it is inadvertant.

Would phlox say something to T'Pol if he saw that Trip's brain was now configured like a Vulan and probably could connect to hers? Not sure.

BTW, alelou, I am NOT accusing you of writing a cliche. I said it was similar to what had been a worn out movie plot line years ago. You aint old enouhg to remember things like that.

SB

[dialee]

It isn't so much that you actually see someone feeling the emotion of love in the brain. You see the effects of the neurotransmitters like seratonin acting on the brain. Chocolates have the same effect.

Also in the discussion, we know about the doctor-patient confidentiality code of ethics but what about if the doctor (like Phlox) keeps relevant information (possibility of change in Trip's brain from a mating bond forming) from Trip the patient?

[Alelou]

Since Phlox does not, to my mind, know anything about Vulcan mating bonds, I'm not sure what he'd say. If the patient is not presenting troublesome symptoms, does it matter if parts of his brain are lit up that aren't usually?

And if these are parts that indicate romantic attachment (or chocolate, I suppose), what would the point in telling the patient? Presumably Trip already knows he is feeling attached to someone (or just had some really nice chocolate).

While I have read plenty of fanfics in which Trip's brain has been re-wired in a more Vulcan configuration, I don't recall anything ever being noted in an episode. These fics tend to also assume that Phlox knows all about mating bonds. That just doesn't make sense to me if T'Pol the Vulcan science officer doesn't. (And if he did know all about them, putting them together for neuro-pressure was irresponsible and capricious.)

What would be the cliched movie plot line, SB? Doctor decides not to tell you that you're dying, so you go fall in love, spreading dramatic irony left and right before heartrbreaking deathbed scene? Must admit I missed them all, unless perhaps they squeezed some in during soap operas my mother would watch as she ironed. (All I really remember from those is that once someone died by falling UP the stairs.)

[Silverbullet]

Alelou, you have doctors, dying on the Brain. I said this was similar to plot lines. Not a Doctor but a second Banana who had a vital piece of information. He/She does NOT tell the hero or heroine. This piece of information nwould save the hero lots of time and avoid dangerous situations. Finaly at the end of the film the hero says "If we only had that information and the second Banana says "I knew that"

As far as Doctors went the plot line would be that the paients wife would ask the Doctor not to tell the patient he/she had only days to live. Make the persons last days memorable. That one usually didn't work well.

Back in the late 30's and early 40's there were a lot of hokey plots. One writer uses it and another picks it up and soon we have a cliche.

Some of them were so shop worn that a peson could go out, buy some Popcorn and a coke, Take a whiz and be back to the seat after the cliche was over.

SB

[Cogito]

It sometimes seems that T'Pol tells Trip as little as possible and as late as possible, but we know that Vulcans are intensely private people and I think this is reasonable behaviour for her character. I can't say I've noticed Phlox denying his patients medical information that they needed to know. I don't think it's fair to accuse canon-Phlox of that, and I don't think that Alelou's Phlox is guilty of it either.

[Silverbullet]

Okay, how about a what if. Phlox tells T'Pol that a bond exists between her and Trip. Her whole demenor towards him would change. Also, when they are connected in her white room she would know it is the bond that connects them. She obviously would consult the Vulcan data base for as much info as possible. Remember in bound she knows about a mating bond. She tells Trip what when a Vulcan mates a bond is formed. Armed with the knowledge that a bond exists between her and Trip can't you see T'Pol knowing that she and Trip are in a mating bond. She would treat him differently with less arms length. So phlox holding that piece of information that affects both Trip and T'Pol he is harming both of them.

SB

[Asso]

Well, I do not want to get into this discussion for a variety of reasons, but one thing I want to say: I have a feeling that, after all, the writers did not know too much about doctors and medical behavior, judging from how Phlox was represented.

[Cogito]

Okay, how about a what if. Phlox tells T'Pol that a bond exists between her and Trip. Her whole demenor towards him would change. Also, when they are connected in her white room she would know it is the bond that connects them. She obviously would consult the Vulcan data base for as much info as possible. Remember in bound she knows about a mating bond. She tells Trip what when a Vulcan mates a bond is formed. Armed with the knowledge that a bond exists between her and Trip can't you see T'Pol knowing that she and Trip are in a mating bond. She would treat him differently with less arms length. So phlox holding that piece of information that affects both Trip and T'Pol he is harming both of them.

SB

Well, y'see, I don't think Phlox could possibly have known that either of them was bonded or who they were bonded to. I think T'Pol already had a pretty clear idea how they were being connected in her white space once he left the ship. I don't know whether the Vulcan database would have included any information about being bonded, given that it was the database given to Starfleet and therefore probably excluded anything the Vulcans would consider private or personal. I get the impression that bonds would be considered intensely private by people who believed in them, and I'm not sure the science directorate officially recognised them so most people probably didn't believe in them. T'Pol's herself didn't seem at all convinced. Her exact words were "There's a long-held belief that when a Vulcan mates, there's a shared psychic bond." which implies to me that she considered this more folklore than medical fact. It seems to me that T'Pol recognised that she was making contact with Trip's mind and wasn't sure how it happened, but suspected that those old tales may have had some truth after all.

If T'Pol herself doesn't already know about something so fundamental, I strongly doubt that an alien doctor would and I find it hard to believe that the Vulcans would mention it in a database given to Starfleet. So, bottom line, no I don't buy the scenario that Phlox could or should have told TnT that they were bonded to each other.

He might perhaps have noticed how attracted T'Pol was to Trip, and the fact that Trip was head-over-heels regarding T'Pol, and perhaps on Denobula he might have done something to try to smooth things between them, but I don't think that was any of his business in his role as Chief Medical Officer. More likely, interfering in personal relationships using information he'd acquired in his role as CMO would be grossly unethical.

[Silverbullet]

I always thought that T'Pol had access to the Vulcan's actual data base not the one given Starfleet.

Never the less. Once T'Pol was certain that bond existed she dropped all pretense. In the hall way in bound she intially tried her "The ship needs you" until Trip indicates he is returning to Columbia. That is when T'Pol comes out with it. She kisses him in public. Something no Vulcan would do. A Two fingered joining of the hands was the most affection allowed by Vulcans. Yet ere is T'Pol Swapping spits with Trip.

Previously she had some indication as in Observeer Affect she is very worried about Trip and in Daedelius (sp) she tells Trip that she is going to study her religion and she has no time for him. In the Aener (sp) Trip is worred abut T'Pol and Phlox tells him that there is no cure for love. That is when Trip decides he can't take it any more and transfers.

If Phlox had told her about the bond I believe she would (if the damned writers had allowed it) change her attitude towards Trip. Would finaly accept that she loved him. she alread knew he loved her.

SB