Men are dogs...How much of a dog is Trip Tucker?

[Cogito]

So, how much of a dog is Trip Tucker in T'Pol's eyes? What kind of behavior would she be upset about? If Trip is admiring a pretty girl would she be upset? What if he's thinking about that cute little red headed girl from junior high? Or having a little flashback to Princess Fishsticks?

We don't know what went on in Trip's thoughts, but we know he is a red blooded male. He will certainly have noticed the attractive females he met, even if he didn't rip their clothes off. After he got together with T'Pol I can't see him being interested in anyone but his vulcan hottie, though. I can imagine him remembering an old flame and thinking 'yeah, funny how I used to think she was really cute', but I can't imagine any of them comparing favorably with T'Pol.

[Silverbullet]

Think that T'Pol would not invade his privacy of his mind hrough the Bond. She would respect it in fact. So, anything that Trip might be thinking would remain unknown to T'Pol. Howver, if he was openly goggling at some female walking by waving her Ass at the men T'Pol might be a little upset. Of course that cuts both ways. He would epect her privacy through the bond If T'Pol admired a Hunk going by trip would remain unaware of it. Not sure though that Vulcans would admire a hunk.

SB

[Cogito]

Not sure though that Vulcans would admire a hunk.

I don't suppose they spend as much time ogling each other as we do, but I think a certain vulcan admired a certain hunk.

[panyasan]

You know, it really depends on the status of their relationship. If they are in a secure relationship and both of them knew they had chosen, him thinking "that's a nice girl" wouldn't be that bad.

But if it's more and especially when Trip is sharing emotional stuff with her - then all the red alarms would go off and I think she would make sure he concentrates on her again. The problem is they have to find a way to communicate and share themselves with each other, because that's will build their relationship, like it is with all couples.

There is another aspect. T'Pol as Vulcan may had other views on Human/Trips behavior that we found more or less normal. So they need some extra communication what the other is feeling/thinking etc. then in a Human/Human relationship.

[Silverbullet]

I thought the Bond did that. Share thoughts and feelings. Such a thing would bring them closer than two human couples, ordinarily. There would be exceptions of course. But on the whole the bond is just that a link betwen their minds that is unbreakable.

SB

[Transwarp]

You know, it really depends on the status of their relationship.

I'm with Panyasan on this. T'Pol, as a student of human nature, is certainly aware of the innate attraction that human males have for the opposite sex. I think once Trip has convinced her that she is THE ONE--his choice forever--T'Pol will not have any anxiety when Trip sees (and appreciates) another beautiful woman. She will know he is just being human but has no intention of acting on his biological urges. In an earlier stage of their relationship? All bets are off!

In one form or another, this question has been asked (and answered) in almost every TnT fanfic out there. The answers are not all the same, of course, and depend greatly on the premises of the authors, the details of their universe, and the stage of the TnT relationship. I agree with some of the answers, disagree with others, but all are valid.

So then: How much of a dog is Trip Tucker in T'Pol's eyes?

Answer: However much of a dog you (the author) want to make him.

[Silverbullet]

Transwarp, looks like you may have answered Putaro's question. Let's see what he has to say about your answer.


Good on you for great try





SB

[putaro]

Well, I see a lot of interesting cross-cultural conflict here as well as male/female conflict.

Vulcans have tended to look down on Humans whenever possible. T'Pol has certainly had the attitude (for example, leading up to Risa) that Human men are slaves to their own sexuality. That can go different ways. She could realize that she has to be a little tolerant of Trip or it could lead her to being hyper-vigilant. It could lead her to re-examine her prejudices or it could even lead her to re-examine the precepts. There are many Earth cultures that extol certain virtues publicly but when you start looking at what the people in those cultures are REALLY doing, it's apparent that it's only lip service. What's really going on on Vulcan?

I read one fan-fic recently where it was stated that adultery was punishable by death on Vulcan (not entirely sure if that was supposed to be exaggerated or not). We (Westerners) look on Earth cultures that have those kind of laws as being barbaric. Would Vulcan meet our own tests?

I'm asking because discussion is often more interesting than just reading what someone else wrote. It's a chance to find out what other people are thinking and maybe come up with some new ideas.

[Transwarp]

What's really going on on Vulcan?

I've heard others speculate that there's a Vulcan underclass consisting of the less educated and less 'logical'. That's always made sense to me, but it never came up in my own work, so I'm not sure how I would have developed it.

We (Westerners) look on Earth cultures that have those kind of laws as being barbaric. Would Vulcan meet our own tests?

They'd fall short in some areas. Arranged marriages come to mind. (There's at least one thread on this board discussing arranged marriages on Vulcan that became rather animated.)

...discussion is often more interesting than just reading what someone else wrote.

Indeed!

[putaro]

What's really going on on Vulcan?

I've heard others speculate that there's a Vulcan underclass consisting of the less educated and less 'logical'. That's always made sense to me, but it never came up in my own work, so I'm not sure how I would have developed it.

It makes a lot of sense to me as well. Vulcan intelligence, for example, should fit some kind of a bell curve. I'd speculate that the average Vulcan intelligence is higher than the Human norm but there are still going to be some percentage of Vulcans that fall below even average Human IQ.

Or, perhaps the Vulcan bell curve is very narrow, with most falling into a high IQ range. There are a lot of jobs that don't require a very high IQ and that people with high IQ's are often bad at. Maybe trash pickup is always a problem on Vulcan because no one wants to be a garbage man.

[marchale]

Or, perhaps the Vulcan bell curve is very narrow, with most falling into a high IQ range. There are a lot of jobs that don't require a very high IQ and that people with high IQ's are often bad at. Maybe trash pickup is always a problem on Vulcan because no one wants to be a garbage man.

Well, that may be true, but then again, there might be Vulcans who can find much better things to think about than what they might be doing on the job at the moment. While my IQ isn't that high, it's only 128 - I often enjoyed doing mindless manual labor type of work a trained chimp could probably handle just as well, such as factory work, janitorial, etc. That way, at least I could (usually) get permission from the boss to listen to a fascinating audiobook with my headphones on, and those jobs were usually much more pleasant to do rather than those where I needed to occupy my mind with whatever dull tasks a more mentally challenging type of job might've required. Because let's face it, unless a person has a serious career they find very interesting, frankly I think most jobs out there are really very BORING when you think about it, and who wants to have to think about that dull stuff all day long? (And even though I'm disabled now and no longer working, I'll still throw on an audiobook while I'm doing more mindless tasks like washing dishes, vacuuming, cleaning my apartment, etc).

[Cogito]

At one time, Vulcans were at the mercy of wildly uncontrolled emotions. Since The Awakening, they have found how to get their emotions under control but it seems to require a relentless discipline, and there are some - such as T'Pol - who find it difficult. It seems logical to suppose that there are some who find it impossible. So I suspect there will be some vulcans, hopefully a minority, who don't have full control over their emotions. I'm reluctant to read anything into T'Pol's drug addiction because I think this was an insult to her character as well as vulcans generally, but there's no denying she went native in circumstances that must have appalled her fellow vulcans. Perhaps the mental structure that leads to such brilliant analytical thinkers also makes them vulnerable to compulsive/obsessive tendencies or addictive personalities. In humans the line between the brilliant and the insane is often hard to see, and perhaps that's true of vulcans as well.

[Transwarp]

Perhaps the mental structure that leads to such brilliant analytical thinkers also makes them vulnerable to compulsive/obsessive tendencies or addictive personalities. In humans the line between the brilliant and the insane is often hard to see, and perhaps that's true of vulcans as well.

Good point. I think brilliance is often just the ability to see things in a new and different way. I believe that Vulcans, as a whole, would tend to be more methodical and deliberate in their approach to problem-solving, relying less on what humans would call 'brilliance.'
Vulcan society seems to frown on the sort of unconventional thinking that would lead to new and different ways to solve a problem.
Got a problem that can be solved through the rigorous application of a complex procedure? A problem that requires incredible attention to multiple, interrelated details? The Vulcans are your guys!

Got a problem that needs a leap of intuition? You might want to look elsewhere first.

there might be Vulcans who can find much better things to think about than what they might be doing on the job at the moment

I think Marchale's on to something. I immediately thought of the garbage man in the 'Dilbert' strips!

[Silverbullet]

Brlliance , Wonder what it is. I have, and have had for a very long time, a genius level I.Q. This allows me to grasp thing immedieately. While others are still struggling with it. To come up with answer quickly. but that is it. People with lower I.Q.'s will get there but much more slowly but they will get there. A high I.q. can be a problem at times as oothers resent it. So many with high I.q.'s hide it.

still it doesn't prevent a person with a high I.Q. from dong some damned stupid thngs.

It evens out.

SB

[Cogito]

Seems to me that menial jobs are gradually getting less menial. The farm labourer sits in the cab of a twenty ton behemoth, the street sweeper sits behind the wheel of a giant hoovomatic, the kitchen servant loads the dishwasher rather than scrubbing the floor. Apply that progression to a millenia-old vulcan society and perhaps the vulcan equivalent of a dishwasher is responsible amortising the capital costs, or deciding what strategy to use for out-sourcing the maintenance program.

As an aside, I wouldn't claim to be a genius but I tend to do well on classic IQ tests. I think of extreme intelligence as a way to get to the wrong answer quicker.