Men are dogs...How much of a dog is Trip Tucker?

[Silverbullet]

Can we start our definition of a Dog as a low life? Again, Trip would not fit that discription. None of the men on Enterprise would. Guy like Tolaris would. Fact is I would say he fits Dog really well.

SB

[Cogito]

So, three pages in, I don't think we've agreed what it means for a man to 'be a dog'. What does it mean to you, Putaro?

[Asso]

So, let's see. Since there was not too much of willingness to explain the exact meaning of what it is meant by 'dog man', I had to get an idea from what has been said in the thread.

Well, my friends, I do not know if this sentence in English can have the same taste that it has in Italian.
We say: the man is a hunter. The unspoken words that should follow it are: and the woman is his prey.
There is implied yet a third sentence, which is the last. And both are happy to be who they are.

All this complicated ritual of hunting ends when one of the preys of the hunter decides that the hunter needs to stop hunting. If this happens, the hunter has not escape.
No other prey. Nevermore.
In doghouse, my dear hunter!

I do not know ...
Do not you think there is much of the story of the poor Trip in this particular turn of events?

[putaro]

Well, I think most of us have the same definition of "dog" except for SB.

Usually it just means a guy who is unfaithful or is chasing multiple women at the same time (who may or may not know that's what's going on). Another slang word for this is "player".

I would say that it's not a black/white thing but there's a spectrum of how much of a dog a man is and every man is a dog to some extent. Or, in the immortal words of Jimmy Carter:

I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.

Some people would like to say that Trip, having a "mate bond" with T'Pol is incapable of even that much.

Tolaris - Tolaris is a rapist and that's a whole different category.

[Transwarp]

Well, I think most of us have the same definition of "dog" except for SB.

And Asso. And me. Until you defined it, I had no idea what you meant. Maybe it's a regional thing? or a generational thing?

Usually it just means a guy who is unfaithful or is chasing multiple women at the same time.

The skirt-chaser I've heard referred to as a wolf but never a dog. The unfaithful guy I've heard called a pig.

I would say that it's not a black/white thing but there's a spectrum of how much of a dog a man is and every man is a dog to some extent.

Hmmm. So I'm a dog if I find a woman other than my wife beautiful, even though I've never been with another woman in my entire life? That's a rather high bar you've set! (Rather like saying that every woman who's ever disagreed with a man is a shrew.)

If a label applies to every man who has ever lived, or is ever going to live, what then is its purpose?

Some people would like to say that Trip, having a "mate bond" with T'Pol is incapable of even that much.

That seems to be true for Vulcans, given what we know of them, and it is a reasonable postulate for a fan-fiction universe. In *my* universe, I have decided that a Vulcan mating bond would not have such a dramatic impact on a human male's basic nature. I believe that is also a reasonable postulate.

Tolaris is a rapist and that's a whole different category

No argument there!

[putaro]

Hmmm. So I'm a dog if I find a woman other than my wife beautiful, even though I've never been with another woman in my entire life? That's a rather high bar you've set! (Rather like saying that every woman who's ever disagreed with a man is a shrew.)

If a label applies to every man who has ever lived, or is ever going to live, what then is its purpose?

Well, the same goes true for the label "thief" - all of us have stolen something at some point in our lives. Different people will draw the line at different places for when you start calling someone a "thief". Does taking home pens from the office make you a thief? I wouldn't say so but there are those who would. The same is true for being labeled a "dog" - we all have a certain level of bad behavior and different people will draw the line at different places. I'd say, though, that all men are at least as bad as Jimmy Carter.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.

Well, there's another quote I cannot remember where it came from, but here goes:

"It doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home!"

[Silverbullet]

Paul Newman said "Why go out for a hamburger when you have steak at home."

SB

[panyasan]

I always had some trouble with what dog meant. If it means a guy who chases more then one woman at the time and is kind of a player, well, Trip Tucker isn't a dog.
(I am not really a fan of the word dog. Sounds rather bad. At least it isn't a pig. That sounds much worse).

I think Trip Tucker is the average guy. His name Charles means "Human" and he is as human as you can get. Taken out the bond factor, when a beautiful woman passes by, his body will react with a normal, biological reaction. He would find woman attractive.
But Trip isn't a hunter. I read one story once where Malcolm and Trip discuss relationships. Trip tells him that he had feelings for every woman he slept with. I see him as a guy who wants to connect with a woman. When he loves a woman he goes for it. He stays with that one woman, because he has chosen to. So I don't see him fooling around when he is in a relationship, let alone if he is married. He comes around as a bit shy and women love that.

As for Risa, as Rigil pointed out, he had been alone for a while. And he isn't very good in going after woman, which he would if he had experience and was this kind of dog.
In season 2 there are a couple of moments when it shows he values the opinion of T'Pol very much. There is a scene in Acquisition where T'Pol remarks about him walking around in his underwear. He has lot of other things to do, but the first thing he does - and very quickly - is to get some clothes.
Before Risa, T'Pol makes remarks about him acting like a dog - so maybe unconscionable he thought: "if you think this about me, I will sure act like it." And Trip felt flat on his face.

So Trip reacts to T'Pols actions. I wrote a story, set after the morning after breakfast, where Trip asked Cole on a date with chocolate and roses. Cole soon finds out Trip only asked her because he is hurt and thinks about T'Pol, especially when he falls asleep and half awake calls Cole "T'Pol" and totally can't remember Cole's name.
I didn't publish because the reaction was "Trip would never do this." Maybe he wouldn't. But I can imagine that hurt feelings can make any man or woman act wrongly.

So no, Trip Tucker isn't a dog. He is just a very faithful guy, looking for that one woman to connect with.

[Transwarp]

... So no, Trip Tucker isn't a dog. He is just a very faithful guy, looking for that one woman to connect with.

Panyasan speaks for me here.

Well, the same goes true for the label "thief" - all of us have stolen something at some point in our lives. Different people will draw the line at different places for when you start calling someone a "thief". Does taking home pens from the office make you a thief? I wouldn't say so but there are those who would.

I wouldn't say so either, but you raise a valid point. However, there is a generally-accepted definition of the word 'thief' that most people will agree on, and someone taking pens from the office falls short of that definition. People who draw too broad a circle around a word will undermine the spirit of that word's accepted meaning, and run an increased risk of miscommunication with others.

So it is with a term like 'dog': If you define it so broadly that it includes a faithful husband who loves his wife and would never dream of cheating on her, and is able and willing to control his normal biological attractions to other women, then I think you've diluted the word to the point where it has no effective meaning.

Least ways, that's how I see it.

[Cogito]

So it is with a term like 'dog': If you define it so broadly that it includes a faithful husband who loves his wife and would never dream of cheating on her, and is able and willing to control his normal biological attractions to other women, then I think you've diluted the word to the point where it has no effective meaning.

Least ways, that's how I see it.

I agree strongly with what Panyasan and Transwarp wrote about Trip's behaviour and attitudes. But I don't think that defining 'dog' in a very general and all-encompassing way prevents it from being a useful term. If I understood Putaro correctly, he is not asking whether Trip is in the set of people who are dogs. That question has already been answered by his assertion that men are dogs.

I think in the context of this discussion Putaro used the term 'dog' to an instinct which is present in all of us, including Trip. I believe Putaro's question is: to what extent does Trip act on it? In my view, not at all. I don't believe he is in the habit of seeking sexual conquests.

[Silverbullet]

Based on the series,Trip never was on the hunt for Conquests. Ah'Len, he never had sex with her unless you count ptting your hands in a box of pebbles as Sex. Fishstick was the agressor there. The girl on the stranded ship wasn't an aggresor but it was her who initiated the Kiss not Trip. Certainly when T'Pol jumped Trip's bones she was the agressor. Trip had this stunned look on his face when she dropped the Robe and showed him the goodies.

At no time was Trip a hunter. If anything he was the prey.

SB

[Kotik]

As part of the angsty section of my little story (yes, I know I'm long-winded, thank you Kotik) I had Trip giving a tour of San Francisco to a woman from his home town, a friend of Amanda Cole. Alelou's been beta'ing for me and when she read the first draft she just hated Trip.

Well, if Alelou is your beta, the angst comes by definition. She's one of the most brilliant fanfic writers, but unfortunately for my puny, feeble soul, she's also the Grandmaster of Angst. The thing I don't get is, why do you think men are dogs? Unless I am completely un-male, I wouldn't really describe myself as a dog, neither would I assign that moniker to Trip. He did get into any panty he could (Kaitaama) while he was a bachelor, but once he admitted to his feelings for T'Pol, he was completele indifferent to the opposite sex.

[Silverbullet]

Any Panty? One (fishstick.) We are not referring to his three busted romances on Earth which may or may noot have included sex. For a man in his early 30's that is almost a celebit a monk. Not by any measure could he be called a dog. T'Pol had been right he did need to get a little, more often.

SB

[putaro]

All righty then. So, we've established that all of the men on this board are not dogs and that Trip is not a dog.

However, if you are in a monogamous relationship, it really comes down to your partner's perceptions.

So, how much of a dog is Trip Tucker in T'Pol's eyes? What kind of behavior would she be upset about? If Trip is admiring a pretty girl would she be upset? What if he's thinking about that cute little red headed girl from junior high? Or having a little flashback to Princess Fishsticks?