Men are dogs...How much of a dog is Trip Tucker?

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well, regarding Princess Fishstick, if she looks like this , I can't say I blame Trip...

[Rigil Kent]

WG, excuse me. when was it ever indicated in the series that Trip went in for casual Sex? Fistick obviously was not his fault. Doubt if he could have driven her off with a phase pistol.

He can say NO! He can shove her off. He can not have sex with her. HE WANTED TO HAVE SEX! He went to Risa and he was looking for SEX not the love of his life!

That is behaving like a dog.

Is screaming at the top of your lungs just because you happen to disagree with Silverbullet really necessary? Seriously, we get your point. You don't have SCREAM AND THROW A FIT. It is honestly this kind of reaction that makes me generally uninterested in commenting on these things. Wasn't it Soval who dissed Archer by pointing out that when his logic failed, he raised his voice? That's kind of what you're doing.

I frankly classify Tucker as too passive to ever be considered a "dog." Yes, he went to Risa trolling for sex, but they've set up Risa as essentially an intergalactic bordello and the Disaster Duo were doing what all single, military types do while on leave. The entire Risa escapade is actually the only instance you ever see Trip act like a dog and even then, he falls flat on his face. In every other instance where there is even a sliver of romantic subplot - Ah'Lenn, Liana, Fishstick, Cole, T'Pol - he's a reactionary, passive character and never makes the first move. I'd argue that he even seems oblivious and frankly surprised when the female makes a move on him.

And its kind of silly to spaz out at Trip because he slept with Fishstick. She instigated it and by this point, its been nearly 2 years (probably longer) since Tucker had sex. At this point in s2, T'Pol is sniffing around Archer thanks to ENT becoming the Super!Archer and Sidekick!Polly Show, so why should Trip push Fishstick away? She's attractive and willing and he's a guy whose probably gotten kind of lonely.

So I wouldn't say Trip is a "dog." But then, most of the characters in Trek don't exactly act realistically in this sort of fashion...

[Cogito]

Even on Risa, as far as I remember his 'womanising' consisted of sitting in a bar and waiting for a woman to hit on him. Yeah, he's a real dog, no doubt about it.

[Alelou]

Okay, I wasn’t going to do this anymore, but after lurking in this thread I just have to jump in. I don’t see Trip as quite that pathologically passive as Rigil does. While he does let the ladies lead, generally speaking, we see him in “First Flight” flirting pretty hard with Ruby, he’s not exactly shy and retiring with Ah’Len, he bosses Kaitaama around once they’re on the planet, and even in “Harbinger” you could wonder if that robe would ever have come off if he hadn’t hazarded that suggestion that she was jealous. He’s the one who says “What just happened here? Are we…?” And in “Bound” he pretty much gets T’Pol exactly where he wants her.
Before he realized T’Pol was an option, yes – I actually agree that Trip was as much a ‘dog’ as any polite and professionally-driven young man with normal sexual desires ever is. After – I just don’t see him as the kind of guy who would really be attracted to another woman until he’s gotten over T’Pol. I hated his characterization in the first draft of Putaro’s story because one missed connection that was caused by his own childishness left him 1) convinced that T’Pol wishes only to torture him, and 2) apparently seriously considering the attractions of a cute blonde (this after being totally immune to a bunch of nearly naked green-skinned Orion bimbos). I just think he’s smarter than to immediately conclude that T’Pol is out to torture him, and much slower to regain command of his own heart than this flutter of interest in new girl would indicate. (Depending on how you think of the bond, it might even be impossible for him.)
With Putaro’s tweaks, I was much happier with it, and I think it’s actually very funny watching him have a miserable time with high-heeled chick while helplessly channeling his inner T’Pol.

[Asso]

I might also be interested to put some comment, but what I am lacking is the exact meaning of 'dog men'.

[Linda]

So, to get the definitions straight, "dog" and "tart" are the same thing but differ according to which gender indulges in promiscuous behavior? Okay, it doesn't bother me much when this behavior is done by either male or female when they are not in a committed relationship. When a person is in a committed relationship and behaves like a dog or a tart, it does bother me. But there is a thing called "poly amoury" (spelling is off, I think) where two commited lovers or married people agree to not be exclusive in sexual behavior (and of course Phlox's people practice that). But that behavior also makes me nervous. Personally I think sexual jealousy would break up a committed relationship if one or both of the partners became non-exclusive. Unless, of course, economic or cultural pressures kept a couple together, probably unhappily. I think Warpgirl is right, Trip was "chasing skirt" in the Risa episode and look where it got him, LOL. But he was not in a committed relationship at that point, so it didn't bother me much.

[Cogito]

With Putaro’s tweaks, I was much happier with it, and I think it’s actually very funny watching him have a miserable time with high-heeled chick while helplessly channeling his inner T’Pol.

I didn't see the tweaks, but I agree the end result was very funny (and also quite endearing).

[putaro]

The original version was the same action, mostly the same dialogue, but a little less inner voice from Trip and he might have been a touch more interested in his "date". What I was thinking in the original draft was pretty much what Alelou described above but I wasn't getting it across properly. Perhaps if I had someone to "beta" my conversations with my wife I would get into less trouble.

[Silverbullet]

(aside, I believe the writers hacked up the episode. The original intent, supposedly, was to orbit Risa so the crew could go down to the surface and indulge in some play time. By the time they orbited the writers had it that the crew would go down to the surface and do pretty much what appealed to them. Bar using Trip and Malcolm as Comic relief)

I still don't see Trip as what I would call a dog. To my mind a Dog trolls for Sex (subconciously) all of the time. He carves notches on his bedpost. Women are conquests to him. Sex has no meaning. It is just a means of counting his succcess. One could ask him and he could tell you how many women he had Sex with accurately. That is a Dog. Trip doesn't come anywhere near that.

A Tart (Slut now used in the place of that) probably likes men in large numbers and loves sex. She wouldn't know how many men she had Sex with, doesn't care how many. She is in it for the Sex. No one in the Ent world came near that either.

Think putaro may have to refine his title from Dog to something else.

SB

[Cogito]

Perhaps if I had someone to "beta" my conversations with my wife I would get into less trouble.

Great idea! If you figure out how to do that, please let everyone know how.

[Rigil Kent]

Okay, I wasn’t going to do this anymore, but after lurking in this thread I just have to jump in. I don’t see Trip as quite that pathologically passive as Rigil does.

That's okay. I forgive you.

we see him in “First Flight” flirting pretty hard with Ruby

I'd place that 10 years earlier, before he got burned a couple of times with his failed relationships mentioned to T'Pol, and with an unavailable woman ('cause he'd have to seriously know that Ruby wasn't really an option, I'd think)

he’s not exactly shy and retiring with Ah’Len

Valid point and conceded, although I'd say they still hadn't fully solidified his character yet and were obviously thinking about having him be the "playa" of the ship. With her, he was more flirty than normal, probably because he subconsciously saw her as unavailable (which goes to his mindset - is he drawn to women who are unattainable?)

he bosses Kaitaama around once they’re on the planet

Well ... yeah. They're now in a survival situation and he doesn't have time for her silly "superior" crap.

even in “Harbinger” you could wonder if that robe would ever have come off if he hadn’t hazarded that suggestion that she was jealous.

To be fair, she was acting really weird.

He’s the one who says “What just happened here? Are we…?”

And he was very surprised looking, yes?

And in “Bound” he pretty much gets T’Pol exactly where he wants her.

Cause, by that point, he knows how her brain works ... and if you treat the finale as accurate, they still screwed it up.

But its all good.

[CX]

Ok obviously I need a longer vacation from these boards.... SB Let's look at what Travis did on Risa, Rock Climbing! Not clubbing, not drinking, not meeting womem... Rock Climbing

Do you thing the entire crew went down there for sex? UG!!!!! That's insane completely insane. Risa is the Hawaii of the ST universe. There were tons of stuff to do.

You do realize that you're saying that Princess Fishstick raped Trip, right? You're asserting that he doesn't have a right to say no if a woman touches him in a sexual manner. That isn't what happened, and it's disgusting! He could have stopped it! He didn't stop it because he wanted to have sex with her!

Since when does not turning down sex when it's offered amount to being a dog?

[Cogito]

Since when does not turning down sex when it's offered amount to being a dog?

I suppose it depends how you interpret the expression 'being a dog', but IMO taking an opportunity to have sex just because it was offered, without any emotional relationship or commitment, fits the term pretty well. Perhaps it means something different to other people.

[Linda]

LOL, what is the meaning of "dog" here? I like Cogito's definition but also Silverbullet's description - a person who keeps meticulous score of his liasons. Or is it a guy who just grabs sex whenever and where ever and can't tell you how many times he has had it this week? And is the guy just takes occassional sex when offered but does not go on the hunt included in the "dog" house?

[CX]

I'd think of a dog as being more of the actively going on the hunt type, so just not turning it down when it's offered wouldn't really count. To be frank, though, I found that episode pretty stupid, and the way Fishstick went from angry and fighting him to sex as just being a stupid aspect of that stupid episode. It was probably meant to be funny, but I can't say that I found it more than eye roll worthy.