Just how "experienced" was T'Pol?

[putaro]

I watched "Dear Doctor" the other day. Liz Cutler seemed to be pursuing Phlox romantically and he was asking T'Pol for advice (in best dentist fashion, while he has his fingers in her mouth) and she tells him:

In my experience, humans lack the emotional maturity for interspecies relationships. They tend to be easily infatuated with things they find new. This crewman may simply be satisfying her curiosity at your expense.

So, what was T'Pol's experience? Had she tried it before? She didn't seem to be spending a lot of time with other non-Human races so had she seen other Vulcans trying it?

[WarpGirl]

Okay wow talk about whacking a hornet's nest. Here's my take when T'Pol, says "In my experience," that doesn't necessarily mean she's talking about what she actually did. Sometimes people can use that expression when discussing behavior they have observed, or been around. Like me and being around Child Abuse and alcoholism. I've never abused a child, and I'm not an alcoholic. Still, I can say I have experience with both of them. (Stupid Uncles and Aunts)

So, what was T'Pol's experience? Had she tried it before? She didn't seem to be spending a lot of time with other non-Human races so had she seen other Vulcans trying it?

The opperative word here is seem the truth is T'Pol has 30 years on everyone on Enterprise, we have very little information on her early career, either in the Ministry of Security, or The Diplomatic Corps, or The Science Directorate. She must have had experiences we aren't privy too. So take that into consideration.

Another thing to consider is that her experiences might not have related to human/alien parings but she could have observed other mixed/alien parings, and added what she knew about those to what she knew about human relationships. She'd had plenty of time to observe, and study human culture and relationships. And she is a scientist. After spending years of observing, she could probably connect the dots.

Of course, people have written fics where T'Pol had relationships with other human men before Trip. I never bought them for one good reason... IF and I do mean IF she had a prior relationship with a human man, she would have handled things with Trip differently. Maybe not in a better way, but she wouldn't have acted like a fish out of water.

[Silverbullet]

I would say not much experience except for observation. Not personal experience. She obvioously had not mated before Trip since she was not bonded toanother. If it had been a Vulcan she would have bonded to him. Doubt if she would have had anythng to do with an Andorian or tellerite mch less a klingon. Ruling out other species that leaves humans. Trip was the first for her in my opinion. She was a virgin when she seduced Trip which might explain why she gutted him the next day. It is not unknown for a Human virgin to panic and claim all sorts of things. They are simply scared. Probably too youg. T'Pol was ineperience sexualy. Trip was the first man she had sex with and probably was the last one too. In Bound she said they were mated and bonded. That smacks of something permanent. Chalk me up for T'Pol being inexperienced and a virgin when she and Trip did the dirty.

SB

[WarpGirl]

I'm not sure this topic was supposed to focus on her sexual experience. If it is I'm terrified, because people can go nuts. There is no evidence at all, that she has had any romantic relationship sexual or otherwise before Trip. Still, like I said she has 30yrs on all the humans. So for fic purposes, anything is possible. Even so, from what we know canonically, the odds of her being "experienced" in any way with romantic relationships is slim to none. Her remarks at various points in seasons 1-2 point to the fact that she was never in a mixed relationship herself.

[putaro]

So who did she observe in a mixed Human/non-Human relationship?

She is a woman of mystery but Humans are relatively rare off Earth at this time and before being assigned to the embassy on Earth there's little chance she met any anywhere except Vulcan. While she was at the embassy, she didn't go many places on Earth ("Sightseeing was not one of my assignments.") except maybe Carbon Creek.

So who was having this relationship that she had experience with? Was she just playing the "older and wiser" Vulcan? Did she just make something up?

[putaro]

I would say not much experience except for observation. Not personal experience. She obvioously had not mated before Trip since she was not bonded toanother. If it had been a Vulcan she would have bonded to him. Doubt if she would have had anythng to do with an Andorian or tellerite mch less a klingon. Ruling out other species that leaves humans.

She may have been personally inexperienced, however she states, quite clearly, that "in her experience, Humans lack the emotional maturity." So this isn't about mixed relationships in general, but Humans in a mixed relationship. Where did she see a Human in a mixed relationship?

[Silverbullet]

Actualyy, in Season 1 she was engaged to Koss and had been since she was seven. That might rule out other realationships. In her days with the Security section she tracked down fugitives and captured them to go back to Vulcan. Not much time there for relationships unless she started one while hunting a bad guy. In season one and two she was a little cold to approach. She held herself aloof from too much personal contact with the Humans. She gave advice when asked and often when not asked. Other than that it seems she was not close to anyone.

I have read different bios written by different people. One claims that T'Pol was secretly in love with Archer. She was his XO for ten years after Trips death. she finaly returned to Vulcan to live out her days there. But that is supposition.

SB

SB

[WarpGirl]

Maybe she saw humans with other aliens who were not Vulcans. Remember Humans have had contact with other spieces besides Vulcans at this point. Look at Travis' life as a Boomer, he's been in contact with Rigelians, Naussicans, Orians, and even Deltans!

Heck, humans were interacting with Denobulans and got a Rigelian treatments for Paxton's "Taggert disease." All before Enterprise was launched.

T'Pol spent a good 2 decades out in the galaxy observing many different people, places, and things. It's entirely possible that out in that galaxy she had the oppertunity to see an Alien/Human relationship.

As to whom these humans were, use your imagination. Maybe some Boomers, maybe some human diplomats, it could be dozens of possibilities.

[Silverbullet]

Double post. In e2 when they were in Sickbay and phlox said that Lorains DNA contained Vulcan annd Human DNA T'Pol remarked that Human and Vulcans had never been able to produce a child before. She obviously knew about the fact that there had been other human/Vulcan raltionships without having been involved in one herself. She might have been quoting from knowleddge obtained from the Vulcan data base when she sppoke to Phlox

SB

[WarpGirl]

Was that E2? I thought that was a Daniels episode. They were looking at his computer and some sort of medical files, on Vulcan and human DNA.

[Silverbullet]

No what I was referring to was in e2. Thre was a short spot when Archer and Daniel were looking in to the far future that they saw someone with Vulcan DNA. Archer remarked that he wondered if it was possible. Daniel, I believe, said that it was in the far future.

SB

[WarpGirl]

Not the episode I was thinking of... Daniels was already gone! It was Archer and T'Pol were alone in his quarters.

[Distracted]

I wrote a series of stories while Enterprise was still on the air about T'Pol being married before to an abusive husband when she was very young. Koss helped her escape from the relationship and she ended up engaged to him afterwards out of gratitude. I think the story blended fairly well with canon up to Bound. So it's possible to imagine virtually anything you want to imagine about T'Pol's past history. She's sixty years old, for pete's sake. An awful lot can happen in sixty years.

[WarpGirl]

Yeah but the question is her "experiences" when it comes to Vulcans and humans. Not relationships period. And I loved that one Dis!

Anyway I just had a thought that proves she was never in a sexual relationship with a human other than Trip...

T'POL: I suppose I should thank you.
TUCKER: No need to thank me.
T'POL: For facilitating my exploration of human sexuality.
TUCKER: I'm not sure I follow.
T'POL: It's one of the many aspects of your species which I've been meaning to explore since I left the High Command.

Now of course, it doesn't prove she never had a physically chaste romance with a human... And yes those actually do exist for people over the age of 18. But I somehow doubt it. Otherwise she would know better not to let a guy believe he was an experiment.

I actually can sort of believe she might have had a previous relationship ie marriage to a Vulcan. Even with the Koss factor. It does make for interesting stories, such as Dis' work. But again, canonically it seems she was betrothed to Koss as a child...

T'POL: We haven't spoken in many years. Marriages on Vulcan are arranged during childhood. I've only met Koss four times.

But here is the really great thing about fanfic...You can make stuff up!

Isn't that neat!

[WarpGirl]

Sorry for the double but I thought I should let Putaro know that it's not nice to inspire people's muses when certain people have 4 ENT stories to work on, 1 original novel that desperately needs attention, and two SW's stories barely on life support. That said I think I might have to provide an answer as to how T'Pol has "experience" with human/interspieces romances.