Romance vs. Love Story

[WarpGirl]

SB please tell me you attempted to read what I wrote about the episode?

[WarpGirl]

Well, the next few episodes our girl has a pretty easy time of it. Rogue Planet (I'm sorry to say this is the epsiode where I quit watching ENT when it first came out) all she really had to deal with is Archer running around strange dark planets with no phazer and no communicator. That's just a typical day, she's handling that stress like a pro by now.

And Aquisition is a wonderful boost to her self-esteem! Not only does she get to check out Trip in his "blues" but she finally gets a good zinger on Archer that gives him a taste of his own snark!

ARCHER: (holding out his manacled wrists) Do you have the key?
T'POL: Not that interesting. No sense of humour. Always complaining.
ARCHER: I'll make it up to you.

You go girl! But at this point things are looking very good here. The guy's are teasing her, which she knows is the way humans accept each other. She's working good with Trip, (and getting a fabulous view) life is pretty good.

But this leads us to Oasis... and I realize that I haven't gotten into T'Pol's perceptions about Trip and women. So I'm coating myself in teflon so the rotten tomatoes don't stain. Please go easy folks. Okay <deep breath> ready...

I have to start with Ah'len, now there are a lot of extremely hot feelings on the subject. Nobody is required to agree with anyone! but for the sake of this conversation I'm going by exactly what was in the episode. So for those who have very negative opinions about it, the only thing that matters is what we actually saw.

Now to begin with let's get one thing out of the way... Our girl has been attracted to our boy since the moment she set foot in the ready room!

I don't deny this! I'm nuts, not stupid. However, while she was disappointed on many levels with the situation not the least of which was as a woman attracted to a man; I hesitate to call her reaction true romantic jealousy. Now, just so we're all on the same page, here's the definition of jealousy.

Jealousy: 1.suspicious or fearful of being displaced by a rival: a jealous lover
2.resentful (of) or vindictive (towards), esp through envy: a child jealous of his brother
3.possessive and watchful in the maintenance or protection (of): jealous of one's reputation

Option 1: is romantic jealousy, and it doesn't fit here. Why you may ask? Well hold off on the tomatoes for just a minute. Ah'len is not a rival. Let's all remember that at this point TnT are barely capable of a civil converstaion. Sure I'll bet Trip had some wild dreams about decon (who wouldn't) and T'Pol had to do quite a bit of meditation, (I would!) but in waking moments Trip's reaction would be a huge h--- NO!

In T'Pol's mind any attraction to Commander Tucker is a purely physiological reaction to be dealt with by proper meditative techniques. It's her body's natural reaction and she knows how to handle that. It isn't an issue, Yet! If someone mentioned, her being involved with Trip in anyway, T'Pol would glare so hard that she'd burn through the hull. It's not even an appealing option at that time. Let's remember, they've only known each other 2 weeks!

So I repeat Ah'len is not a rival because she isn't usurping T'Pol's place in Trip's life! Option 1 out!

But keep holding the tomatoes back we've got 2 more options! You'll get your chance to let them fly promise!

Option 2: Resentful jealousy, jealousy that hinges on wanting to have something or to be like someone else. Doesn't work! Sorry. But keep holding the tomatoes! After a lengthy search I can find no evidence our girl met the lizard girl. So all she knows is what Trip tells her which is a whole lot of nothing about Ah'len personally. So she has nothing to go on when it comes to the type of woman he would want if indeed he were to truly pick one up! Option 2 is out!

So finally we're up to Option 3: DING DING DING! I think we have a winner, winner, chicken dinner! Good ol' protective jealousy! Think about this... What was T'Pol's primary objective when she got her assignment? Observe, and try to keep these rowdy humans under control! This is a sign of a big, fat, failure! Not even out of the gate a month and you've got a medical emergency, a possible diplomatic nightmare, plus she's now convinced that these humans are even more completely clueless then even the most dire predictions. They keep up like this they'll all be dead in a year! And guess who'll be blamed... That's right, Our Girl! Well doesn't that stink. And it's a waste of a perfectly adequate engineer. Even if he does threaten to throw her out of the airlock.

Okay... If you must throw tomatoes at me please be gentle I bruise easily... Done? Good! Now let's move on to Liana...

Now in the interest of being fair, Liana is great! I'd have lunch with her in a heartbeat. She's a real sweetie, cute too. In fact, the only thing I can think of to say as to why I don't like her with Trip (aside from the fact that she isn't T'Pol) is that she has one fatal flaw, way too "young" (possibly just being too sheltered) for our boy. They aren't equals.

But what about Our Girl, it's almost been a year since she met Trip, they've gotten through the severe rough spots up to this point. They have civil conversations, they can even pick on each other. While I wouldn't call them close friends they are definitely friendly colleagues. And our poor boy was hit over the head with the reality of our girl's "nice bum" during waking hours courtesy of one Malcolm Reed. Things are very different now. Our flirty boy enjoys deliberately flirting with our girl now. Enter the line that gives us this haven of fun!

T'POL: My courage doesn't need testing.
D'MARR: I have other items to trade. I can get you some Triaxian silk for, say, another protein resequencer?
TUCKER: I bet you'd look good in Triaxian silk.

Ironic isn't it? He flirts with our girl in the teaser then goes full throttle for Liana... Hmm I wouldn't like that! and neither does our girl! But out of our 3 options for jealousy which one fits: romantic, resentful, or protective? Rather then re-hash I'll just say what I think. I think we've moved up to Option 2 folks. Now, if you have any tomatoes left hold off... T'Pol still isn't being "replaced" therefore Liana is not a rival! But this time our girl has interacted with this one, this time our girl is watching Trip doing the pursuing. OUCH!

Our girl is making up a mental list of everything Trip is responding to about Liana, and she's comparing that list with "Vulcan Women." Just so we're clear, in her mind she's not comparing Liana to herself. She's thinking in general cultural terms not personal ones. Either way, "Vulcan women" are coming up WAY SHORT. And that isn't a good thing for our girl's peace of mind. Worse, she's still not quite sure what kind of trouble he could get into with this one. Thankfully she's spared anything too horrible, just a protine resequencer that makes 5 types of ice cream including rocky road, and a small kiss.

For the record gentlemen, an EXCELLENT idea! Just be sure that you check if your sweetie has food allergies, or if chocolate gives your sweetie migraines before buying an Ice Cream maker, and attempting rocky road!

After Liana's departure, life pretty much goes back to normal. Archer does something incredibly foolhardy in Detained, and is declared virtuous. A gooey alien wraps up Trip and Archer, but: she, Malcolm and Hoshi manage to save the day. And there's some mild human/Vulcan clashing but nothing out of the ordinary. Oh if only the good times could last for our girl. You know, I'm beginning to think she's ENT's O'Brian!

That's enough for now, let's discuss... Thankfully, Season 2 isn't nearly as T'Pol heavy in the issues department! It's my fingers one reprieve.

[Transwarp]

Wow, is this a *great* topic, or what?

Loads of fun to read, although I'm not quite sure what it says about me that I'm nodding my head and agreeing with just about every post. Even the ones that are diametrically opposed. (I mean how can I agree with both Kotik AND WarpGirl, at the SAME TIME?)

Chalk it up to yet another character flaw, I suppose.

[WarpGirl]

Well, I beta for the man, what does that say about us! It's like I told him, he's a guy I'm a girl our perceptions regarding how one sex reacts to the other are naturally going to be opposed at times. It's a scientific fact that you guys only use one side of your brain when you're communicating and observing other people. It's also a scientific fact that we girls use both. We're getting two sets of info to your one. Conflict is unavoidable.

That said, HUGS FOR ALL!

[Cogito]

Cogito, obviously.why didn't T'Pol realize it. She should have kknown that the Vulcans did not consider it dishonorable. It made sound military logic to watch your enemies.

Why didn't T'Pol realise it was a VHC installation?

It seems to me that every single person in the trek 'verse realised immediately that it was a VHC installation. So did all the viewers.

I don't think there's any hard evidence either way about whether the Vulcans thought it was dishonorable to hide a listening station in a religious sanctuary. I did, I think Archer did, I think the Andorians did. I don't know whether the Vulcans did. But I do know that it was a secret hidden installation which the VHC didn't want exposed, and they blamed T'Pol for it being exposed.

[WarpGirl]

It's 7:47am and I haven't gotten to the coffee yet but could someone tell me what that has to do with TnT's romance? The Vulcan violation of the treaty is irrelevent. The only thing that matters is the fact that T'Pol got blamed, and how that impacted her on a personal level.

[Cogito]

It's 7:47am and I haven't gotten to the coffee yet but could someone tell me what that has to do with TnT's romance?

Well, if you're going to be like that about it, a psychiatric evaluation of T'Pol is off topic in a thread about the distinction between love and romance.

[WarpGirl]

No, no, no, no... The psychiatric evolution of T'Pol helps explain why they couldn't turn their Romance into a Love story on TV! See you have to use both sides of your brain to see the connection! You know, so there!

[Silverbullet]

Trip did nothing with Ah'Len exxcept play what she called a game. He shoved his hands in to a box of Pebbles. Comes back to Enterprise Preggers.

Had a discussion about thhis when I first landed on this board and the consensus of opion was that T'Pol was jealous. She did light into Trip in sickbay hen Archer was there and it was his job to sk Trip for an explantion. She said that the first lesson a Diplomat learns is to keep his fingers out of places they do not belong. She read Trip the riot act. If she wasn't jealous she gave a damned good imitation of it. won't go in to the impossibility of Trip getting pregnant. His body would naturallly fight off any foreign body, (virus, disease, or any organism that came in to his body. that is why powerful anti-rejection drugs are needed for organ transplants. when I first said this someone googled and came up with the fact that an embryo could leave the womb and attach itself to other organs like kidney, liver or even the heart. Problem with that was the embryo was part of the woman in whose body it was. Her body would not reject it as it would recognize the embryo as hers. It would not be foreign) whatever. T'Pol was jealous. she may have just been pissed that Trip came back in his condition.

Liane. t'Pol was jealous there too. when she was talking to Trip she reminded him of the last time he met up with a female Engineer: He got Pregnant. he said "You are never going to let me live that down." She looked pissed. when liane came in with food T'Pol was barely civil to her and walked out saying she was going to the bridge. so yes, T'Pol was jealous in Oasis.

She was not in Acquisition.she worked well with Trip capturing the Frengi and forcing them to cough up what they stole. she did make a remark about Trip having an explanation why he was in the skivies.

Cannot wait for your assesment of Princess Fishstick

SB

[WarpGirl]

SB I did say she was jealous! I even went into what type of jealousy!

[Silverbullet]

But I am saying tat it is not protective Jealousy but possesive Jealousy. She is clearly pissed at Trip. Thinks he did the dirty with Ah'Len, would not believe him when he says he was a perfect gentleman. Even questions whether he knows what a gentleman is. She berates him and says he must have been playing house with Ah"Len all the time he was on board her ship. She was angry and it showed on her face. Why? As you say they had only known one another for a few weeks. Apparently that was enough to spark interest in T'Pol. She was jealous and pissed at the same time. At the end of the episode she gets snarky with Trip by saying she had searched the data base and he is asaid it in private. She wanted to embarass him and she succeeded. So, to my mind it ws not protective but possesive jealousy T'Pol harbored. As I said at the time of the discussion if she was jealous. T'Pol could only show affection through anger and jealousy" NOt until season four did she show affection not throguh anger and Jealousy but through expressions of affection like kissing Trip in public.

SB

[WarpGirl]

Okay 2 weeks they only knew each other 2 weeks. Not enough time for T'Pol to go there. I think that where so many people want to believe that they had the feelings that were in Harbinger and Bound from the moment they met. I'm sorry it isn't true! Look at their first neuropressure scene. Trip thinks she's making a move and his reaction is...

Wait! What the... No! Huh? We can't! Up until that moment the idea was reserved for REM sleep and the occasional fantasy on a lonely night. It's like a guy overseas with a pin up of Angelina Jolie, yeah nice imagery but never actually gonna happen. They take a loooooong time to even get to the point either would consider themselves friends the way a human would define it.

The idea that T'Pol was jealous because she wanted to mate with Trip during Unexpected makes no sense! Yes, she gave him h--- and yeah the physical attraction amplified her reaction. But it wasn't because she wanted to be in his bed.

[panyasan]

Now let's move on to Liana...

Now in the interest of being fair, Liana is great! I'd have lunch with her in a heartbeat. She's a real sweetie, cute too. In fact, the only thing I can think of to say as to why I don't like her with Trip (aside from the fact that she isn't T'Pol) is that she has one fatal flaw, way too "young" (possibly just being too sheltered) for our boy. They aren't equals.

But what about Our Girl, it's almost been a year since she met Trip, they've gotten through the severe rough spots up to this point. They have civil conversations, they can even pick on each other. While I wouldn't call them close friends they are definitely friendly colleagues. And our poor boy was hit over the head with the reality of our girl's "nice bum" during waking hours courtesy of one Malcolm Reed. Things are very different now. Our flirty boy enjoys deliberately flirting with our girl now. Enter the line that gives us this haven of fun!

T'POL: My courage doesn't need testing.
D'MARR: I have other items to trade. I can get you some Triaxian silk for, say, another protein resequencer?
TUCKER: I bet you'd look good in Triaxian silk.

Ironic isn't it? He flirts with our girl in the teaser then goes full throttle for Liana

I strongly disagree. First of all, Liana is about 23 years old. A adult, grown, yet a bit naive woman. Trip is about 33 years. They are both adults and Liana isn't too young to be in a relationship.
BUT... they aren't in a relationship. They are just two people who like each other and like to spent time together. That can happen, you know. A man and woman can be friends with each other and like each other. He think Trip realized she is very sheltered and treats her like a young friend of sister. He doesn't jump on her or flirts heavy with her. I think his comment to T'Pol was more a flirt then his interaction with Lianna.

As for Trip being a jerk not asking if she was allergic for ice cream... He is being nice and shows her the nice things about his culture.

This reminds me of a commercial at home, which annoys hubs very much. A man proposes to his girl friend and she looks at it and says...
- the rock is rather small - what if we break up, do you have a refund...

Why don't enjoy the simple things in life and let Lianne enjoy her ice cream.

[WarpGirl]

As for Trip being a jerk not asking if she was allergic for ice cream... He is being nice and shows her the nice things about his culture.

Woah! Back up! I did NOT say Trip was a jerk for not asking allergie or migraines!! Where did I say that. I didn't even USE the word Jerk in that post!!!!!!!! And my remark about buying an ice cream maker was to give the guys here a good idea for a romantic present for their S.O.'s, Partners, girlfriends, wives, whatever!

I don't what you're talking about Panyasan. Are you Ok?

As for Liana, I didn't say they had a relationship. I was only pointing out why I didn't think they would work out! I think Trip doesn't work with Hoshi for the same reason!

[Cogito]

There's some truth in that. And yet, Trip was awfully quick to jump to the conclusion that she was making sexual advances and it was quite clearly at the front of his mind - together with that of every red-blooded male watching. So that's very obviously how he was thinking of her. And T'Pol didn't seem at all unhappy to have this smelly primitive male run his hands over her naked body - something that I think would have been massively out of character for the reserved and intensely private Vulcan unless there was a strong connection there already. Could you imagine her doing something this intimate with Archer, Reed or Travis? No way, unless it was in sick bay with bright lights and a chaperone and you'd damned well better not get any ideas about getting frisky with me, buster.

ETA: I'm too slow. The 'that' I was referring to was:

Look at their first neuropressure scene. Trip thinks she's making a move and his reaction is...