Romance vs. Love Story

[Distracted]

I checked my home computer's "stories" file and the story was in the proper format to submit here. I vaguely remembered submitting it so I checked our archive again. It's in there under "Sincerest Form of Flattery Guess the Author Game". If anybody wants to read it and comment I certainly won't complain.

[Kotik]

(random: should we start a comedy section on the main page? It could be called Tzlu'pd Kha'wal which is Vulcan for "amusing joke". lol)

This suggestion is indeed most agreeable. Thou hast 2 hours to implement it. What art thou waiting for?

[WarpGirl]

Later, I'm working on my T'Pol post Part 2. I promised some equal criticism since I went off on poor Trip.

[Cogito]

Are you talking about a new category on the forum, or the site home page with the latest fanfic on?

[WarpGirl]

Okay this is a continuation on my post regarding T'Pol's issues on page 7, which is the counterpoint to my listing of Trip's issues on page 5. Now that we're all caught up onward...

To add even more conflict and stress to this already stressful situation, is the Captain's insisting they go down to P'Jem. Frankly, I thought T'Pol did a great job trying to talk them out of it without just saying What part of you're not welcome don't you understand! And seriously, if someone famous for holding a grudge against your race wanted to go skulking around one of your holy sites would you welcome them with open arms? I wouldn't.

And of course once they get there T'Pol's caught in the middle of conflicting objectives. On the one hand, she wants to make this thing with the humans work. She wants to be accepted and treated as a trusted ally and crewmember. On the other hand, there is loyalty to her people, her heritage, and her own personal beliefs. And make no mistake she is being forced to pick a team by both sides. The Vulcans think that by volunteering to stay with the humans, she's going "native" remember these guys already know who she is. They're the ones that erased her memory of her time as a secret agent. To them she "went bad" once, being surrounded by these humans is just proof that she's still not a "proper Vulcan." And she KNOWS it! Yet another blow to any self-worth.

Then the Andorians show up. Now I love Shran! But for the life of me I cannot see how Archer just spat in the face of a long time ally and help the people who barged into a sacred site, and used weapons and violence on (mostly) unarmed preists. Not only that they kidnapped and beat him and his crew. Naturally T'Pol is going to resist the idea! I would! But when she is shown proof her people are in the wrong, she acts with determination and courage. She turns her scanner over to Shran, and proves to Archer that Vulcan or not, he can trust her to do what's "right."

Of course she does this knowing that she's screwed herself over with her people worse then any other way she could possibly do. She turned over top-secret information to Vulcan's enemies under human orders. And we all know how well everyone takes that!

Which brings us too Breaking The Ice! Now, this is the episode that sold me on TnT! I became a true believer instead of juse resigned that it would probably happen. That said, I was pretty ticked off about it... I mean after what she did at P'Jem they STILL distrust her so much that when she gets an encoded letter they don't even bother to ask her about it. They just rip it open. I mean come on, not only is it an invasion of privacy of the worst kind, but it's blatant disrespect in the face of all she's done for them. Including saving their bacon more than once. I'm sure she was thinking, What to do I have to do to gain their trust and respect! Which is why I like how she put Trip down when he confessed...

T'POL: You read my letter?
TUCKER: Believe me, I don't feel very good about it.
T'POL: I have more letters in my quarters. Would you like to read those as well?

For the record if Trip had been on a Vulcan ship and that had happened to him what are the odds he would've used some language that shouldn't be used in front of a lady? Dude got off easy, and to his credit he knew it!

But this also shows that despite these stubborn, sometimes cruel humans, (although most times they're completely oblivious) she does like them, she does respect them. If she didn't she wouldn't have confided in Trip, she wouldn't have listened to what he had to say, and some of it was pretty darned insensitive to a Vulcan POV. Would you like hearing that your sacred traditions, and customs are barbaric? I wouldn't! Trip's opinion means something to her, but more important it's probably one of the few times in her life anyone really listened to her, and agreed to support her no matter WHAT she chose! That's probably the first time in years she had anyone concerned for her personal self-worth. Pretty heady stuff!

Still the choice is BRUTAL! Look at what's at stake here she's already rapidly becoming Persona Non Grata! Everyone in the VHC knows what she did at P'Jem at best they're saying she's "gone native" at worst, they're whispering traitor. The honor of her family, Koss' family, and the oppertunity to have a family hangs in the balance! Do you think it was an easy thing for her to say, "I don't want to go home, so I won't." Sorry, it doesn't work that way. She probably agonized every moment up to the minute the T'Muir left. She was gambling with her life, with only the hinted promise that someone would support her. I can tell you nobody, man, or woman could make such a choice easily.

Oh god this is going to take longer than I thought! <sigh> Let's discuss and then go forward.

[enterprikayak]

here's the new banner. lol had fun watching the outtakes as i made it. my fave: Phlox with a belly: "J'accuse! J'accuse! Little Billy Bakula will know his Daddy!" lololol (0:36 secs)

comedy.jpg (148.23 KiB) Viewed 701 times

[Kotik]

The banner is fan-bleedin'-tastic, we have a winner

[enterprikayak]

Thanks! I've requested it as a new section on the main fanfic page. We'll see what TPTB can do.

To everyone else: write some funny stuff and/or reccommend existing funny stuff that could be "dually posted" ie - we can get a copy of it into the comedy section as well as leave a copy wherever it originally appeared.

I'll start a thread for discussion of this new section.

Now! Back to your regularly scheduled Romance vs Love Story arguing. lol

[WarpGirl]

I'm not funny eK but I'll read with glee.

Okay part 3 of "T'Pol's issues that screwed everything up" So now that she decides to stay on board Enterprise you'd think that she'd be trusted now, especially by a certain human engineer we all know and love, alas we still have a few more hurdles to cross before that happens...

T'POL: Prepare to leave orbit on my order.
TUCKER: Belay that! Keep this ship right where it is.
T'POL: I don't have to reiterate that I outrank you, Mister Tucker. Ensign.
CREWMAN [OC]: Engineering.
TUCKER: Billy, stand by to vent the nacelles on my order.
CREWMAN [OC]: Yes, sir.
TUCKER: We're not going anywhere.
T'POL: I didn't say leave orbit, I said prepare to leave orbit. I have no intention of abandoning the Captain, dead or alive.

But happily it's the last major such incident of this nature. She gains the man's trust Finally! and of course there's that cute moment with the wig. You could say this is when things start going on a very positive path for her. But the fact that it took so long, was obviously a strain.

And just when things are looking up with no major personality conflicts and awkward interspeices moments we come too...A Night In Sickbay! NOT! Okay how awkward could this be to our girl. After months and months of dealing with distrust, some mockery, and snide remarks... After months of having her ideas challenged and ignored, she's at a place where she thinks she's got the crew's confidence, and some respect from her Captain and what happens... Only the most awkward teenage boys pick up lines ever! And that wasn't even the worst part, her Captain isn't listening to what he has to do to fix a major diplomatic incident and get the part the ship needs. So now she's got a two-fold problem, one she's got to get the Captain to do his job, two she's got to be wondering Does the Captain respect my abilities and sacrifices for this crew, or is he just hoping I will mate with him?

Now I know TPTB were playing, but it was horribly awkward and both actors played it that way. T'Pol couldn't have been more determined to nip this in the bud if she had tatooed no on her face.

Still, as bad as it was, things get much worse. P'Jem comes back to bite hard. To his credit, Archer's privately taking credit for the mess. It really is too bad that it would be VERY BAD for earth and Starfleet if he took blame publically. But this is where T'Pol's self-worth, issues come into play. Her people view her as the destroyer of P'Jem, and to her way of looking at things they're right! I didn't stop them from going down to the monestary, I didn't deter the captain from his course of action, Thousands of years of Vulcan history, relics and sacred teachings destroyed because on my actions.

And the kicker is, that is her sacred site, these are her relics, the masters buried there are the revered men of her people, she reveres them. This is a part of her heritage, and also her personal history. It was the place she went when she was at her weakest point up to that time. From her POV The monks saved her. If anyone had died I shutter to think what would have happened to her. There was definitely a crushing weight of guilt there.

But again there's that Dang conflict of right and wrong. The obseravation station was illegal, her people have broken a treaty that her idol brokered. Everything these humans resent Vulcans for, is blatently out in the open. The hypocracy and lies the dishonor, flys in the face of everything she was devoting her life to in the Diplomatic sphere. And as guilty as she believes herself to be she's also been betreyed. By the people who have condemned her saying that she's straying from the proper path. How can she support the system, but how can she leave it?

Let's not get into the awkward moments of being tied up, they're not all that important. What is important, is that for all their issues, Archer wants her to stay. For all the stress and conflicts, on Enterprise she's starting to believe she was being accepted. And beyond anything else, she craves acceptence.

But I really like how she saves Sopek. This is the essence of her character, No matter how awful anyone is to her, if she sees them in danger, or something unjust happening she will take action. Even if it kills her! Some people find that self-destructive. I find it quite inspiring. She is truly an unselfish woman.

So YEY she's saved, now everything will be okay right? 2 words...V'tosh Kat'ur! If there was any episode that clearly shows how much she struggles to find a place that accepts her, this is it! Every lesson she has every been taught, every instinct she has, is telling her to STAY AWAY! But these are her people, outcasts, she's drawn to them because she knows what it's like to be not quite right. Tavin is actually a reasonable man, he presents his arguments in an articulate way, they aren't "condemning" logic, knowing the VHC she was probably expecting some Vulcans like those on the Seleya. She's not getting that.

Adding to the internal pressure, everyone on the ship is really digging these people. All the conflicts she deals with don't exist for them. Trip is having a grand old time with Kov, Archer is chummy with Tavin. There's no stress, everyone is accepting of everyone! They're even accepting of her this despite the fact that she's trashed them from the first bite of chicken marsala. It's enticing. Finally Archer weighs in...

ARCHER: It seems to me like, you've been busy avoiding them. I can understand that you might not approve of what they're trying to do, but for all we know they're onto something.
T'POL: That's unlikely.
ARCHER: Is it? Eight years. That's a pretty good track record.
T'POL: Just because they smile and eat chicken doesn't mean they've learned to master their emotions.
ARCHER: Maybe I'm just relieved to finally meet some Vulcans who aren't giving me a hard time. Then again, if they have found this balance.
T'POL: They're not the first ones to attempt this, Captain. Others have tried to reintegrate their emotions. They all failed. What they're doing is dangerous.
ARCHER: Unless my instincts are way off, they don't seem very dangerous to me. But I could be wrong. I can't order you to spend time with them, but I would encourage you to keep an open mind.

There is a very strong unspoken message here. If you don't at least try to keep an open mind, you're like all the Vulcans who give us a hard time. If you really trust me, then trust me to know these people won't hurt you.

It's a challenge, a challenge to prove that she's grown into the mindset on the mission, and the crew. She can't back down. If she does, it puts her being accepted by the people she lives with in jepordy. If she doesn't do this she's still the VHC officer on ship, not a member of the crew.

And what a perfect opening for our resident psychopath...

TOLARIS: How long have you lived among humans?
T'POL: I spent two years at the Vulcan consulate on Earth and seven months on Enterprise.
TOLARIS: That's a long time away from home. Living here has obviously affected you in ways that you don't realise.
T'POL: You may be right. On occasion, I also drink chamomile tea.
TOLARIS: And you have a sense of humour. A concept that most Vulcans can't seem to grasp.
T'POL: You're easily amused.
TOLARIS: There's that humour again. I'm curious, why do you stay here?
T'POL: Captain Archer needs a Science Officer.
TOLARIS: Is that the only reason? Maybe you're more attached to these people than you'd care to admit.
T'POL: What makes you say that?
TOLARIS: Your emotions are much closer to the surface than other Vulcans. They're easier to read.
T'POL: I have yet to mediate this evening. Perhaps that's what you're sensing.
TOLARIS: This may surprise you, but we still meditate. The balance between emotion and logic requires constant discipline.
T'POL: So you've said. You and your colleagues have chosen a reckless path.
TOLARIS: Have we?
T'POL: History's shown that Vulcans who attempt to embrace their emotions often revert to their primal nature.
TOLARIS: That's a myth. Propaganda from five thousand years ago. Our primal nature, T'Pol, is not as dangerous as you think. Commander Tucker suggests that I try something called pizza. Would you care to join me?

It's completely unfair how outmatched she is here. He's the perfect balance of rebel and articulate and rational. He pushes just enough to get her to admit that she has been assimilating to life with humans, and challenges her very subtley. Which brings us back to another personality trait that causes our girl a mess of trouble... Girl cannot say no to a dare! Seriously, whenever someone says "Oh no you can't" she goes and does it! It's good for somethings, rotten in others.

The kicker with the psychopath is that he says something completely true!

T'POL: (spotting a statue in an alcove) It's curious that people who reject Surak's teachings would display his likeness.
TOLARIS: We don't reject his teachings. We simply disagree with how they're interpreted. Have you read his original text? He never intended for us to purge our emotions. He wanted us to master them,

Oh the best serial predators are invisible until they strike! I gotta say the actor and the writers did an outstanding job here. Poor girl didn't stand a chance.

So she agrees to stop her meditation has some very wild dreams, but she's not a crazy animal. So far nothing bad has happened. And of course she gets approval. Approval is good. And one thing you have to remember that Vulcans have always been telepathic, it's been a part of her daily life from the womb. While she might not have a clue what a "mind-meld" is, she does know that it would be unthinkable to harm another person in such a way, it goes against the very fabric of her existence.

She's let herself trust her Captain and a member of her people, despite her training and extincts hoping to be accepted by both this group of Vulcans, and the humans. And that is the real tragedy of her rape. Just try to think of the damage this does to her self worth. She went against her training, indulged in the weakness she was warned against her entire life, and she was brutalized. She listened to the humans and they were wrong. And now because of P'Jem she's cut off from familiar help. Of course she doesn't they wouldn't help her anyway. All she knows is that she's on a ship where nobody can truly appreciate her position. They already led her astray. She's alone.

UG! Enough, let's discuss.

[Cogito]

You paint a bleak picture, and I can't disagree with any of it. And yet, despite the lack of any hard evidence, I want to believe she's NOT alone. She has Trip to be outraged on her behalf when he finds out what happened to her, and to be her supportive and non judgemental friend when she needs it. No evidence, you say? Pah! That's simply how it is, evidence be damned.

[Silverbullet]

Back on Topic. I never cared for the episode P'Jam. Too many holes in it. T'Pol claimed that the Vulcans were being dishonorable. She turned ver the Paad to Shran which to my mind was more dishonorable. Anyway, I have voiced what I belive really happened at P'Jem. I.e. no way could the Monks afford all that expensive and sophisticated equipment that was in the catacombs. Nor did they have the expertise to install it, maintain it or roperate it. Only the VHC could have funded it and provided the technicians to run the thing. The monestary was in Vuclan territory and what was there was none of their business. A listening post is purely defnsive and since when is defending your planet and species dishonorable. A treaty was mentioned but never explained. What were the terms of the treaty? Perhaps it guaranteed that the monks would not be bothred by the Andorians and it was the Blue men who were breaking the treaty. Archer had no damned idea of what was in the treaty. All the head priest told him was that there was a treaty. Archer was out of line. He shold have tired to stop the Andorians from molesting the priests but left it there. It was not his responsibility to accord blame for anything. He shold have told shran to hop it and had T'Pol erase the Paad.

Remmeber that in the shadow of P'Jem it was said the Andorians broke the treaty of Tau Ceti so they would break a treaty when it suited thier purposes. They could not go around demanding that other follow thier interpretation of what was allowed and what was not.

Braking the Ice. Belive Trip was sincere in his aplogy. The letter was encrypted. That aroused suspicions from Hoshi, Archer and Trip. Trip drew the short straw and had to get it decrypted. He read it, saw what is was and tried his best to apologize. As uusual "Archer to T'Pol." she had to leave right in the middle of Trips attempt to apologize and make things right. As Trip said in her quarters it sounded as if she had alrady made up her mind. She had, but not what Trip thought. She had made up her mind not to go backto Vulcan and marry Koss who she apparently didn't like. all trip did was tell her about personal choice and how important it was to humans. Ehat she should have it too.

That lst scene in Breaking the Ice with T'Pol staring at the slice of Pecan Pie. Never explained but left to the viewers to make up their mind what it meant.

Sb

[WarpGirl]

Cogito I wish I could believe she told him before the Expanse but I don't. I think she needs the neuropressure to open her up.

SB I'm trying to outline why T'Pol was not able to sustain a relationship with Trip, this is about her personality, and how events shaped her decisions. It is not about the episodes themselves.

[Cogito]

no way could the Monks afford all that expensive and sophisticated equipment that was in the catacombs. Nor did they have the expertise to install it, maintain it or roperate it. Only the VHC could have funded it and provided the technicians to run the thing.

You've mentioned this before I think, but I don't understand how you could think anyone else sees it any differently. It's inconceivable that the monks have built this huge listening station themselves and run it for their own purposes; obviously it's been built and is now operated by the VHC using the monks as a cover.

[WarpGirl]

Seriously they even say that in the episode!

[Silverbullet]

Cogito, obviously.why didn't T'Pol realize it. She should have kknown that the Vulcans did not consider it dishonorable. It made sound military logic to watch your enemies. What may have been dishoorable was to put it in to the Monestry. It should have been built elsewhere as a listenig station and to hell with the Andorians. It is none of their business what the Vulcans put up in thier own territory.

I never heard anything in the episode that indicated the VHC had anything to do with the listening post or had the equipment put in.

If it was the VHC. then some of the Monks would be VHC types who would defend the station.

the episodes are some of what shaped T'Pol.