Why MU T'Pol...

[WarpGirl]

No. Sim and MU TnT have the same personality As Trip and TnT in the RU.

[Cogito]

No. Sim and MU TnT have the same personality As Trip and TnT in the RU.

Not understanding. Can you explain what you mean by that?

[Silverbullet]

Transwarp, you are forgetting and the writers wanted the audience to forget also. Sim was still a desert Larva. A Larva is just a stage. If Phlox extended Sim's life span he would be interferring in the Larva development. Sim was NOT human he could just replicate an imitation of a HHuman right down to the dNA but he himself was not human. He would revert to his Larva state eventually. In the deleted scene Sim is telling T'Pol he is researching his own species "Desert Larva." Sim could provide tissue for Trip's Brain but I wonder how long it woulld last. I always imaginged Phlox performing two (2) operations one to remove and repair Trip's damaged tissue while Sim's tissue was temporarily in Trips brain and then removing Sim's tissue and replacing Trips own tissue which would be guaranteed to live as long as Trip does. Sim would die on the table as his imitation could not live with the tissue removed.

SB

[Asso]

My dear friend, TransWarp, I'm used to discuss with my students, and - I can assure you - they are much worse off than you - or maybe better? Or. ..
Damn! You know what I mean!

You have chosen an example 'extreme', but I accept the challenge.

You see, my friend, you have given you the answer by yourself. You said:

Notice I said IMMEDIATELY after the battle. I am NOT saying that over time, Trip wouldn't get over his grief and gravitate to a relationship with MU T'Pol. I am NOT saying that eventually RU Trip and MU T'Pol couldn't become soul mates in their own right. I am NOT saying that the potential for great love isn't there.

Sorry, Transwarp, but in this way didn't you say, basically, that our friends are interchangeable?
Forget Trip and T'Pol, let them. Do you believe that, after the loss of someone so loved - right after - a man - a woman - would be immediately able to take comfort - pass me the term - by another person, even if he - she - feels this person practically the same that he - she - has lost? Frankly I do not think so. I will not believe!
You can't, I believe, prescind from the variable 'time', and, in fact, you do not. However, in this way, it seems to me that you brings water to my mill.

Second issue: Sim e Trip. You said (a little rhetorically, I think ):

Sim IS Trip. There is no difference. Same DNA; even the same memories. They are interchangeable.

Aren't they?

No, excuse me, they are not. The two are two things totally different: Sim is an artificial reconstruction of Trip, he (now, excuse me, I feel more fitting the term 'it') is not a Trip born in another 'elsewhere', he (it) is a poor one who (which) was imprinted with the matrix of Trip (evilly and immorally imprinted, I add, one of the few things evil and immoral that we saw on the screen. More than the whole MU).
T'Pol cannot feel Sim as if he were Trip (at least I hope not), whereas she can feel the other Trip as if he were Trip, because he is Trip.

Oh… ahem… was I clear? No?

[WarpGirl]

No. Sim and MU TnT have the same personality As Trip and TnT in the RU.

Not understanding. Can you explain what you mean by that?

WARNING! I'm as high as a kite on demerol. So basically I'm not going to make one bit of sense.

I said it earlier that if RU TnT were in the MU that they'd do exactly what MU TnT do. And MU TnT would desperately Desperately want to live in the RU and be those good people. Because they are the same people.

Sim if I talk about him Asso and SB would want to murder me. And while disagreeing is more common then agreeing with us I'm too young to die.

[Silverbullet]

WG, harm ou? Perish the thought. I rever inteligent, vivacious young women. I would certainly never harm one. I mightt alk to her, chat with her. Kiss her, or, given the woman some more intimate things. But Harm. NEVER. So be at peace. You are safe with me and Asso becaus ehe is even more gentle than I am.

SB

[WarpGirl]

[Transwarp]

My dear friend, TransWarp, I'm used to discuss with my students, and - I can assure you - they are much worse off than you - or maybe better? Or. ..
Damn! You know what I mean!

Er, I think you said I'm either smarter than your students or I'm dumber. I'm not sure which you meant. I'm also not sure which is true...

Notice I said IMMEDIATELY after the battle. I am NOT saying that over time, Trip wouldn't get over his grief and gravitate to a relationship with MU T'Pol. I am NOT saying that eventually RU Trip and MU T'Pol couldn't become soul mates in their own right. I am NOT saying that the potential for great love isn't there.

Sorry, Transwarp, but in this way didn't you say, basically, that our friends are interchangeable?

Nope. I said the exact opposite, as I will now demonstrate:

Do you believe that, after the loss of someone so loved - right after - a man - a woman - would be immediately able to take comfort - pass me the term - by another person, even if he - she - feels this person practically the same that he - she - has lost? Frankly I do not think so. I will not believe!

Asso, I think I have you on the ropes. I am about to destroy your argument using your own words. (Sorry, but you leave me no choice!) Read what you wrote again *very* carefully, paying attention to the words I have emphasized.
You agree with me that Trip would feel loss. But what did he lose? He lost HIS T'Pol. Trip (and YOU) are both making a DISTINCTION between the two T'Pol's. If Trip considered them to be identical, he would feel no loss. He ONLY feels this loss and grief because he lost someone he can never get back. Someone unique. Someone, if you will excuse me, who is irreplaceable.
They are not and will never be the same person.
Ah, but you attempt to modify your argument so you can sneak it past me by appending the word 'practically' to 'the same'. Not even you can believe they are 'actually' the same.
If they were completely the same, and totally identical, then Trip would feel no grief because he would have lost nothing. He would have no reason for grief: HIS T'Pol would still be with him. Ridiculous, you say? Of course. But that is what MUST be, if your thesis is correct. After all, they are identical. The same. Interchangeable.
But Trip is an illogical human. Maybe he grieves because he does not realize MU T'Pol is really HIS T'Pol and he hasn't really lost anything. Eventually he discovers this and now he is happy again. Whole again. They stroll along the beach, hand-in-hand and remember all the good times they had together... Oh, wait. MU T'Pol can't do that. She wasn't there for those times. How can this be? I thought she was 'the same'. 'Interchangeable.' Now our poor Trip finds out that he can't do the same things with the same T'Pol? Perhaps 'practically the same' and 'the same' are vastly different.

You can't, I believe, prescind from the variable 'time', and, in fact, you do not. However, in this way, it seems to me that you brings water to my mill.

No, the water is not powering your mill, it is washing away your arguments!
When I say someday he could develop an equally close relationship with MU T'Pol, you say, "Ah-Hah! That proves my point!"
Sadly, no. All it proves is that Trip has the capacity (as do we all) to put grief behind him and get on with his life. He could also come to love a human woman (call her Vera). Would you then claim that Vera is 'the same' as T'Pol? I would hope not!

Really, I can't understand your argument. It seems to me you have gone overboard in your zeal to prove that MU T'Pol and RU T'Pol have more similarities than they have differences. But rest assured, the differences are there and they are not insignificant. They may have the same DNA. They may have the same personality. But they have a vastly different set of experiences, and memories. This, to me, is indisputable. This, to me, precludes them from being 'the same.'

[WarpGirl]

Well as high as I am, the only way I can explain how I look at it is to use your own words Transwarp.

They may have the same DNA. They may have the same personality.

[Transwarp]

ell as high as I am, the only way I can explain how I look at it is to use your own words Transwarp.

Transwarp wrote:
They may have the same DNA. They may have the same personality.

But they are not the same person.

[WarpGirl]

If it makes you feel any better my mom says I am dead wrong! Which is quite embarrassing, because it still stings when mom says that even after 27 years.

[Transwarp]

If it makes you feel any better my mom says I am dead wrong! Which is quite embarrassing, because it still stings when mom says that even after 27 years.

Your mom is a wise woman. Try taking another look at my arguments AFTER the drugs wear off. You might have a different opinion!

[WarpGirl]

Oh I know she's a wise woman and my usual MO is to just except the fact that she's always right. However, I'm still not sure after all this time I'm explaining myself correctly. My mom is pretty good at decifering my POV high or not. Maybe I'll just re-explain it to her later and she can translate what's in my head for me.

[Transwarp]

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[Silverbullet]

I am lost. So there.

Didn't EK write her story just arond that theme (too damned early in the morning) Trip and T'Pol travel back to whhere another Trip and T'Pol exist. In that place T'Pol has been assisnated. However, that Trip feels a connection to the T'Pol who came back in time with her Trip and she feels a connectio to the Trip who exists back in time. She even sas that she should be on board the shuttle that is hurtling towards the sun to dive in to it.

I think that paralel Universes could contain other Trip's and T'Pol's and that there are limitless Parallel Universes. but I don't belive the TnT's in all of these unverses would be the same.

SB