Why MU T'Pol...

[WarpGirl]

But without Jeykle, Hyde dosen't exist.

[Asso]

Again I believe the the story Dr. Jeykle and Mr. Hyde outlined it perfectly. We all have that dark side in us. If released would horrify us. Historically that has been born out. People who under normal circumstances would not do the things they did under abnormal circumstances.

so, MU TnT will do dark things that the RU TnT wouldn't.

Hyde could exist in Jeykle's world but could not adapt to it. He would always be Hyde and always have Hydes drives.

RU TnT would always be the way tey were in the RU world and MU TnT would always be as they were in the MU Universe even if each were to be thrown into the others Universe. They could exist but not change who or what they are. Ineveitably their own universe personality would betray them in another Universe.

SB

My dear friend, allow me to disagree about this.

You see, as I'm trying to explain (but I understand that it is pretty hard to share) is that we are not at all talking about different people: I repeat, they are identical in all respects.

It is indeed true that their behaviour is a consequence of the environment in which they formed, on this I agree with Transwarp.
The issue on which I insist it is that not necessarily the influence of the environment can affect so much the conduct of the people that, where there is a change of environment, these behaviours can not change. If so, we would be forever and hopelessly doomed to be the result of the environment in which we are born with no possibility of change, ever. Horrendous and, thank God, not true. But think! We would be condemned to live in a world where redemption would be nothing but an empty word.

In my vision Hyde is not MU, just as RU is not Jekyll. Jekyll and Hyde live in both universes, but in RU it is Jekyill the one who wins (or rather who seems to win); the winner in MU (I hope only the apparent winner) seems to be Hyde.

Our friends, Trip and T'Pol - as everyone else - have the potential to be Jekyll or Hyde in both universes.
It's up to them.
The free choice is not a childlike tale.

[WarpGirl]

I'm starting to wonder if we're all saying the same thing in completely different ways. And if we are I have to say that this is why I don't get out much. Talking to people is soooo hard and confusing at times. And it just gets worse "in person."

[Silverbullet]

Jeykle and Hyde ARE the same person. It is just different sodes of that person that comes out. The good.compansionate man Jeykle and his dark side the evil, cruel, Hyde. But both inhabit the same body. When Hyde comes out he looks evil and cruel and when Jeykle is dominate he looks, kind, good,not evil. Stevenson used that as a metaphor. Actually Hyde and Jeykle proabbly would have looked the same but their personalities would be either good or evil. So too, that possiblility exists in al of us. The potential for both sides that exist in us.

RU and MU TnT are the same but in each Universe different sides of them are present. RU good, MU evil.

Hyde cannnot exist without Jeykle and I submit that MU TnT could not exist without RU TnT

SB

[WarpGirl]

See that's my point!!!!! That's what I mean when I say that MU TnT and RU TnT are the same!

[Silverbullet]

WG, I am glad we agree. I just didn't understand your viewpoint. I belive by the analogy of Jeyle and Hyde it does make what yur point is a bit clearer That RU and MU TnT essentaily share the same body but have different personalities.

SB

[WarpGirl]

No not different personalities. Different morals. The good doctor had all of Hyde's personality traits already. It was his morals that were different. Hyde's moral compass was obliterated.

Trip's got darkness inside of him, T'Pol's got darkness inside of her. In the RU they have a moral compass that subdues those traits. In the MU where the fabric of society outrightly rejects that moral compass their darkness keeps them alive, and provides the methods they use to further thei agendas. So it isn't the personalities that change it's the moral values.

[Asso]

...RU and MU TnT are the same but in each Universe different sides of them are present. RU good, MU evil.

Hyde cannnot exist without Jeykle and I submit that MU TnT could not exist without RU TnT

SB

Subtle and interesting.
However, my friend, I have the impression that you're giving MU a depth that it does not possess.

However, regardless of this, you - as I understand it - are saying that MU T'Pol and MU Trip can not be anything other than what they are, because they are the dark side of Trip and T'Pol.

This is a gripping idea, it has a tragicalness that goes beyond what we saw on the screen. Probably it is similar in some points of view to mine, but also different.

Wanting to continue with your metaphor, I repeat that MU Trip and MU T'Pol are, this is true, the dark side of RU Trip and RU T'Pol, but it is not said that they must be 'stuffed' in this role without a way of escape.
Remember the expression of Spock, thoughtful and intent, at the idea that there could be another way of being (TOS).

But then again, we are giving MU and even Enterprise a depth that they do not have.
And then, remember my original question: Why was drawn MU T'Pol to MU Trip? The most disenchanted among us believe that it was nothing more than sexual attraction and - afterward - sordid manipulation.
Do we really think that things are so?

[WarpGirl]

Why was drawn MU T'Pol to MU Trip? The most disenchanted among us believe that it was nothing more than sexual attraction and - afterward - sordid manipulation.
Do we really think that things are so?

Oh god, I am about to sound rediculously sappy and poetic. Not that I object to sap and poetry as a general rule, but I still find it awkward when I do it...

I think it was sexual attraction and sordid manipulation. I also think that even with all of the dubious morality, darkness, and pain, that MU TnT are just right for each other. Their "light" draws them to each other in the RU, and their "darkness" draws them to each other in the MU. They're just soulmates.

Okay I'm making myself cringe!

[Asso]

Why was drawn MU T'Pol to MU Trip? The most disenchanted among us believe that it was nothing more than sexual attraction and - afterward - sordid manipulation.
Do we really think that things are so?

Oh god, I am about to sound rediculously sappy and poetic. Not that I object to sap and poetry as a general rule, but I still find it awkward when I do it...

I think it was sexual attraction and sordid manipulation. I also think that even with all of the dubious morality, darkness, and pain, that MU TnT are just right for each other. Their "light" draws them to each other in the RU, and their "darkness" draws them to each other in the MU. They're just soulmates.

Okay I'm making myself cringe!

Ah, let me sigh of not concealable joy.
But then, which mind about Trip and T'Pol should have people who are here, if not that they are soulmates?
If we don't think so, it would be better transmigrate elsewhere, do not you think?
Someone, I think, has done it. Perhaps - who knows - because hasn't this idea, and thinks there could be other options.
Crazy, right?

[WarpGirl]

I didn't understand a single word of that one dear.

[Silverbullet]

Actualy neither did I but I am having a hard time following both of you.

We have RU TnT and MU TnT. Without RU TnT we would not have MU TnT would we? Unless you accept that MU is a parallel Universe where the characters are the same but as WG says the morals are different. I say also the personalities. Nevertheless the MU is different in all ways except in body. They Look alike.

I always thought that in e2 the other Enterprise was from another dimmension. That after our Enterprise made it throug the worm hole the other Enterprise returned to its own dimmension. In both dimmensions Trip and T'Pol are the same in all things, body included. Both have the same DNA so both are parents of Lorain. No RU and MU that would be in a different Universe. But RU and RU TnT different dimmension. IN both dimmensions they exist their timelines are the same. I have always thought that the old T'Pol had experienced everything the young T'Pol had only earlier so she knew that the young T'Pol was lying to her when she said she didn't know whather heart wanted.

RU and MU TnT from different Universes. Same but different.

SB

[WarpGirl]

Okay your morals don't determine your personality. For example I have known a few people who abuse their kids. My personality would love to see them dead, my morals tell me something different. Sometimes morals dictate to do the exact opposite of what your instincts tell you to do.

TnT in the RU are subject to one set of moral values, which at times is at odds with their personalities. MU TnT are subject to a set of "moral" values that at times are at odds with their personalites. In the RU the moral values subdue"bad," in the MU the moral values subdue "good."

But all of the good and the bad are already inside TnT no matter which universe they reside in. Therefore they are the same.

[Distracted]

I think Asso wants to say that he thinks that people who are here on TriS would be likely to have the opinion that TnT are soulmates, and that those who believe otherwise are more likely to leave this site and go elsewhere. I hope that's not the case, though. I hope we're open to all opinions on the subject as long as they don't involve pairing either of them with anybody else.

[WarpGirl]

See this is why I feel so darned awkward being all mushy. I do believe in soulmates, BUT I don't believe that just being "soulmates" makes a relationship work. Because life is hard and messy and love is the most important thing, but it isn't the ONLY thing to make a relationship work out. I don't believe you have to marry your soulmate to have a happy fullfilling life. So could Trip and T'Pol be happy with other people? Yes. Is it as fun as having a "soulmate"? Of course not.