Why MU T'Pol...

[Asso]

Why the Mirror Universe T'Pol has decided that her Pon Far were to be met by Trip? Why did she want him? There was lots of male flesh around her, including Vulcan, is not it? Difficult to think of him as a nice man, both in appearance and the attitude.
Not exactly attractive, to tell the truth. Indeed, a tad repellent, if we want to be just honest. Even slightly scary, to want to really say all.



So what?
Lots of things suggested, and very few things shown, not to say anything of solved, on the screen.
As usual.
What a bore!
A little courage would not go amiss from time to time.

[Cogito]

What does it mean, to be in the Mirror Universe?

If MU people are polar opposites of their RU counterparts then MU Trip is a nasty person and it would seem that MU T'Pol is inexplicably and illogically attracted to bad boys. This isn't an appealing explanation.

But it may be that in the MU, people are essentially similar to their RU selves but worn down and embittered by a world where nobody can be trusted. T'Pol is still a brave adventurer at heart, and Trip is still a gifted engineer with an appreciation for Vulcan females - or one female in particular. And honestly, it's not hard to see why she would have caught his eye even without "neuropressure" sessions as an excuse. In the MU I don't suppose Vulcans make friendships easily even with other Vulcans. Perhaps it's as simple as this: Trip was the person she trusted most.

[WarpGirl]

Okay, this is a hot topic and I figure that there are going to be a lot of contradictory opinions. So let the games begin. The MU in all its forms begining from TOS onward is not about being "polar opposites" of people it's about "polar opposites" of sociological ideals! The very basis of the civilization in the MU is completely different from the civilization Gene Rodenberry originally created.

TnT in the MU are products of the society they live in. But everything that makes them TnT in the RU are still there! So it isn't surprising that they would be drawn together.

[Cogito]

I like that definition of the MU and I would be quite pleased for it to be true.

I don't know whether that's how the show's writers thought of it. It always seemed to me that the 'mirror' episodes in each series were a thinly-veiled excuse for the actors to indulge in some out-of-character mucking about with no more reasoning behind it than that. I think of them as wasted episodes where we learn nothing about the 'real' characters and don't develop the plot at all.

[WarpGirl]

Most people do. But quite frankly (and it might be the fact that I'm a huge SW's fan) I enjoy the concept. Don't get me wrong, I would never condone the ideals presented in the MU. Nor do I find it an "indulgence" however, I think that all people are capable of anything in the right circumstances. So I look at the sociology of the MU and I think...

1. "What are the moral options of the the characters?" Because we know what they would do in the RU, but they no longer have those options here in the MU. Therefore, identical personalities can be capable or incapable of vastly different actions in different situations.

2. How does this perspective add to my understanding of the characters in the RU.

Basically I look at it like this, all of the Dark Side stuff of the characters in the MU are there in the RU too. The difference is they can subdue it and choose to fight those flaws. In the MU those things are glorified they don't have the choice.

[Asso]

I would like very much to be in unison with Warpgirl about the explanation she provides in regard to the causes that led the Mirror Universe to be what it is, but I have fear that this is rather an understandable desire of heart: sharable and comprehendible, but still an desire of heart.

Unfortunately the impression I got is that persons are not exactly good guys, there; I mean: it's hard to assert that people in that place are the result of their society, I am rather prone to argue that their society is the result of what they are.

That means that the question is still open: why MU T'Pol, regardless of her not exactly right way to act, was - evidently - attracted to such an - allow me to say - apparently disgusting guy?

The range of responses is very broad.
For example, one might think that T'Pol knows, or thinks, or feels that Trip is not exactly what he seems. And this would lead to an infinity of further ruminations.
Or you could think of some sort of explanation, as it were, more "carnal". After all we are talking about the mirror universe.
To my romantic heart, simply T'Pol cannot be other than T'Pol even in this universe, consequently for her there cannot be other than only one man: her Trip.
But if it's difficult to understand this for the T'Pol of the Real Universe, go figure for the T'Pol of the Mirror Universe!

[WarpGirl]

That means that the question is still open: why MU T'Pol, regardless of her not exactly right way to act, was - evidently - attracted to such an - allow me to say - apparently disgusting guy?

How about that in every way but physically she is just as "appearently disgusting" as MU Trip. Or did you think that her tempting him with sex, mentally raping him, and forcing him to sabatouge the ship, then letting him be tortured, was a "nice" thing to do?

[Asso]

My dear, you put in my mouth words I never said, or - rather - in my mind thoughts I never had.
If T'Pol is still T'Pol, also Trip, I think, is still Trip, in my humble opinion.
And, in saying this, you should think that, after all, I tend to be with you, in regard to some more or less hidden 'good sides' of our couple even in the Mirror Universe.

[Cogito]

How about that in every way but physically she is just as "appearently disgusting" as MU Trip. Or did you think that her tempting him with sex, mentally raping him, and forcing him to sabatouge the ship, then letting him be tortured, was a "nice" thing to do?

It is because of that sort of thing that I find the MU universe so difficult to enjoy. The people there certainly look like the RU characters we know, and share the same names, but when the MU characters act completely contrary to the nature of their RU counterparts, I lose interest in them.

By the way, don't you have a drabble to write young lady?

[Silverbullet]

May I? In this MU it is realy a arallel Universe not a mirror of the RU Universe. Secondly, Roddenbury was making a Jeykle and Hyde statement. He was saying that the chcaracters had a dark side that if released they would act in the way shown in the episodes. But that didn't mean that the characters were actually that way just that they had potential to be that way.

The story I wrote "Reflections" was an actual MIrror Uiveerse. It accurately reflected the Universe it mirrored. It changed nothing, reversed nothing and was dependent on the actions of the RU. Just as a mirror does in your bathroom that reflects you and your surroundings accurately without reversal. A Mirror never reverses anything you can see that for yourself by looking in any morror and seeing your surrounding in it. If soemething is on your left it is on yur left in the mirror. If the mirror reversed things it would be on your right not your left in the mirror. So a true mirror Universe just reflects accurately it does Not change or reverse.

However, an Evil Universe or a reverse Universe or an evil reverse Universe would change and reverse. So what Universe is the MU? Trip and T'Pol are essential what they are in the RU but live in a different society and world which they must adapt to. The concept is interesting but I think it was handled much better in TOS. (the actors seemed to be having a ball making the episode. Not that way in the episode In a Mirror darkly)

SB

[Asso]

I find Silverbullet's concept about the essence of Mirror Universe particularly enthralling, and - somehow - even more disquieting than the 'normal' idea that people have of it.
In reality, however, that old lover of horror and fantasy that I am (a little, this is known, does not it?), I believe that 'mirror' has to be understood literally of 'reversal '. And, in fact, the literature is full of stories peppered with this disturbing concept: just think of 'The Picture of Dorian Gray'.
Beyond the Looking Glass, there is another reality, where the light is darkness, and where people live in evil, because, there, evil is good.
But, somehow, in this dark world, there is a perception that all this is wrong.
And therein lies the hope.
I believe that Trip and T'Pol may be this hope.
Yes, I believe.
To be honest, I'm also writing this, in “The Empire’s Destiny”.

BTW, I also tend to be a little in disagreement about the feminine Pon Far that MU T'Pol says she had had and that was satisfied by Trip.
I am with those that think Pon Far is thing for males, who are the triggers for women.

Ehy! And if T'Pol's Pon Far in MU had been provoked by Trip? Interesting idea, don't you believe?

[panyasan]

I have a hard time accepting the concept of female Pon Farr, for all kind of reasons. So my pet theory is that her Pon Farr was trickered by Trip. She was attracted to him. He may have some scars, but he is still attractive - in his character and looks. Also T'Pol did know him before his accident, so she knows how he looked like before.

As for calling T'Pol a mean b** in the MU - yes, she isn't very nice. I am not a fan of MU or MU T'Pol and I am not defending her actions. However, to put it in perspective: Vulcans are oppressed by the Humans. They are slaves of the Human empire. The empire is cruel and brutal. People who are oppressed and want to free themselve can be forced to do things they wouldn't do in normal circumstances. It doesn't mean it's good, but people of the resistance tend to do things that aren't pretty.

[Asso]

I tend to agree with you, Panyasan, even if I have other ideas about Trip's scar.
Certainly, MU T'Pol acted in a wrong way, but it is interesting that, after all, it is Trip, her target, and I don't think this is only because he is THE ENGINEER.
Oh yes. The more I think about that, the more I become persuaded that he had something to do with her Pon Far.

[Silverbullet]

Wrap your heads around this: a Mirror reflection reverses by NOT reversing.

Logic says that if I could seperate myself and the other self walked around in front of me everything would be reversed. His right shoulder would be on my left and my right shoulder would be on his left, etc. All Reversed. That does NOT happen in a reflection. If ou look in you r bathroom mirror and the towel bar is on you rright it is on the right in the reflection. Door is on your left it will be on the left in the reflection. Nothing is reversed.But ligic says that the image is standing in front of you and things should be reversed. They are not so the reflection reverses by not reverseing. It is a difficult comcept to accept but true. What should be isn't. The reflection, however, is totaly accurate things in the reflection are as they are in reality.

That is a mirror Universe. being an accurate reflection of the universe it mirrors. Everything and everybody would be exactly the same in the mirror as in the RU. NO change and no reverse. TnT would be the same in ech universe. So would Archer, Malcolm, Hoshi, Travis, Phlox. It is only in a parallel Universe that is reverse or evil that change takes place.

In one of those Universes T'Pol who would not experience Pon Farr in the RU could in one of them. She could be evil. So could Trip

This is why I don't care for MU stoires. They aren't accurate they mix concepts. Some things are reversed ad some things not. I will stick to RU I am much more comforatble there.

SB

[WarpGirl]

It is because of that sort of thing that I find the MU universe so difficult to enjoy. The people there certainly look like the RU characters we know, and share the same names, but when the MU characters act completely contrary to the nature of their RU counterparts, I lose interest in them.

By the way, don't you have a drabble to write young lady?

But this is kind of my point, are they really contrary? I see it as "this is what RU characters would do if they had to live in that society."

And I'm completely STUCK on a drabble. I'll try harder.

SB Why are you taking the term Mirror Universe literally? It isn't supposed to be literal. It's metaphoric. Because everything looks the same but is completely different.

My dear, you put in my mouth words I never said, or - rather - in my mind thoughts I never had.

That wasn't my intention I know that wasn't what your were saying. I was asking a rehtorical question.