How Would You Write Characters Who Don't Get Along With TnT?

[WarpGirl]

Well someone who is incompentent, someone who is lazy is an extreme liability on a starship. It isn't a cozy office enviornment. If somebody slacks off and screws up odds are people could die! Mess up a diognostic in engineering anything could happen from Dilithum Matrix misalignment, to a full on warp core breach! Mess up some computer code in the science lab and an experiment can backfire and blow a hole in the hull. So while I agree that nobody is going to be perfect (heck Trip basically killed himself in Similitude) and mistakes will be made, I don't think that many people who are just dowright not qualified would last long.

[putaro]

Even an untrained Vulcan would see the wisdom of standards and documentation. After all, it's logical.

Well, logic all depends on your staring biases. There's a school of thought that documenting your code is a waste of time. You should be able to read the code and figure out what it does. Therefore, if you can pick up a piece of code, read it and understand what it does, why document it? That's just a waste of time.

This same physicist actually wrote a whole little document defending his style of coding, circa 1988. One of his key points was that because terminals (this is way back, remember) could only display 24 lines of text, you should cram as much code as possible into those lines so that you could see it on the screen and comprehend it.

Very logical from his point of view. A royal PITA for everyone else.

[putaro]

Well someone who is incompentent, someone who is lazy is an extreme liability on a starship.

More to Starfleet than starships. There's going to be tons and tons of desk jockeys back at HQ, Jupiter Station, etc.

As I said, I did a lot of work with NASA. You're not going to find incompetent astronauts. Among the rest, though? Well, it's a government bureaucracy like any other.

[WarpGirl]

Even an untrained Vulcan would see the wisdom of standards and documentation. After all, it's logical.

Well, logic all depends on your staring biases. There's a school of thought that documenting your code is a waste of time. You should be able to read the code and figure out what it does. Therefore, if you can pick up a piece of code, read it and understand what it does, why document it? That's just a waste of time.

This same physicist actually wrote a whole little document defending his style of coding, circa 1988. One of his key points was that because terminals (this is way back, remember) could only display 24 lines of text, you should cram as much code as possible into those lines so that you could see it on the screen and comprehend it.

Very logical from his point of view. A royal PITA for everyone else.

OMG That just totally summed up what I've been saying for years about how ENT Vulcans got it all wrong. One person's "logic" is another's chaos. And Surak didn't intend for his teachings to stamp out individuality. Unlike the corrupt VHC. At least we finally got the Vulcan Arc in season 4 that started to fix things.

More to Starfleet than starships. There's going to be tons and tons of desk jockeys back at HQ, Jupiter Station, etc.

As I said, I did a lot of work with NASA. You're not going to find incompetent astronauts. Among the rest, though? Well, it's a government bureaucracy like any other.

Absolutely true!!!! And I appologize I thought of that after my post was posted. It's been a bad few weeks and my mind is still a little mushy. I can see Trip constantly butting heads with R&D and their "improvements" that have no practical value out in space.

[Rigil Kent]

Well someone who is incompentent, someone who is lazy is an extreme liability on a starship.

More to Starfleet than starships. There's going to be tons and tons of desk jockeys back at HQ, Jupiter Station, etc.

As I said, I did a lot of work with NASA. You're not going to find incompetent astronauts. Among the rest, though? Well, it's a government bureaucracy like any other.

Plus, its only logical to presume that at least a couple of the NX-01 crew realize, once they get Out There, that they actually preferred an easier job back on Earth so they slack off, hoping to just get through this tour of duty and be able to transfer back home.

[WarpGirl]

Again you're right, I'm sorry I'm groveling, what else can I say?

[putaro]

OMG That just totally summed up what I've been saying for years about how ENT Vulcans got it all wrong. One person's "logic" is another's chaos.

Yes, they came across as a race of rationalizing people rather than rational people, to me at least. "Illogical" seemed to be Vulcan for "I don't like it" more than anything else.

Again you're right, I'm sorry I'm groveling, what else can I say?

I think your reasoning was logical - just different starting biases

[WarpGirl]

There is a great line from VOY

"You can use logic to justify anything. That's its power and its flaw."

And it pretty much sums it up. Surak's teachings were based on doing "good" for all. So following them is a pretty decent idea. However, it doesn't guarentee the almost "collevtive" mentality of Vulcan society we saw in seasons 1-3 in ENT.

And to bring this back around OT any Vulcans who refuse to accept the Kir'Shara are never going to get along with T'Pol and probably wouldn't care for Trip or any other human much.

Oh and believe me "logical" would probably be the last word I would ever use to describe myself.

[Transwarp]

There's a school of thought that documenting your code is a waste of time. You should be able to read the code and figure out what it does.

I agree completely! Unfortunately, in my experience *I* am the only person I have ever encountered capable of writing self-documenting code. The rest of you need to document YOUR crap!

[Silverbullet]

RE goof of's in space. I am reminded that Space is entirely unforgiving. You only get one mistake out there and it is usualy fatal. A slacker would be a danger to ship and crew. A guy who should be at his/her post is sitting in the dining hall hhaving coffee when an emergency happens and all Hell breaks loose. Ship can be blown to Hell and gone. Spotting and getting rid of Slackers would be first priority ASAP while near enough to home base to dump the peson off on another ship.

There is vast difference between a bureacracy and the privae sector. In one slackers can live in the other the slacker whould be a liability that could cost profits.

Didn't think Trip blew himself up on purpose. Of course an engineer probably could tell me how a ship can go from travling at warp six to a dead stop in about ten seconds and not make eveyone on board in to jelly.

SB

[Cogito]

I always think of Enterprise as being similar to a small military ship similar to a Frigate. I'm sure that the captain would want to have the very best people available on his crew, but I doubt that he would have complete control over who was appointed and the crew would probably have a mix similar to the rest of StarFleet. Inevitably, there will be some people who are good at playing the system and got there for the wrong reasons, and others who are there for the right reasons but simply out of their depth. It doesn't mean the ship is doomed for destruction. Any commander with any sense would quickly work out who was unreliable and make sure that they weren't placed in a position where they could put the ship in danger.

I can imagine this being very frustrating for T'Pol. Not only is she working with horribly crude technology, but they're assigning people who aren't up to the job and then not replacing them when their inadequate performance is reported.

[Transwarp]

I'm sure that the captain would want to have the very best people available on his crew, but I doubt that he would have complete control over who was appointed and the crew would probably have a mix similar to the rest of StarFleet.

Yeah, what HE said.

There is vast difference between a bureacracy and the privae sector. In one slackers can live in the other the slacker whould be a liability that could cost profits.

Yeah, what HE said.

Of course an engineer probably could tell me how a ship can go from travling at warp six to a dead stop in about ten seconds and not make eveyone on board in to jelly.

Since warp travel is technobabble, you simply resort to technobabble to stop yourselves. Inertial dampers. Problem solved.

[Cogito]

Of course an engineer probably could tell me how a ship can go from travling at warp six to a dead stop in about ten seconds and not make eveyone on board in to jelly.

Since warp travel is technobabble, you simply resort to technobabble to stop yourselves. Inertial dampers. Problem solved.

I think the answer you're looking for is "Very, very carefully."

With apologies to Mr Pratchett, I suspect it's similar to the way they tested six league boots. (You don't need to be an engineer to work out the dangers inherent in a mode of transport that involves putting one foot six leagues in front of the other.)

[Silverbullet]

Inertial dampers. What in Hell are they.

It isn't the fall but the suddent stop that hurts. If a car is going 60 miles PH and hits a brick wall and stops even before the driver can touch the brakes the car stops but the passengers continue traveling at 60 MPH forward. They get mashed against the windshield, the Dashboard, impaled on the steering colmn. Thier legs break, all sorts of things. That is a function of physics. No way in hell can anthing ovecome that. Even if yo had something that could stop a body instantly that would tear hell outof aperson too. Believe that in Similitude the crew should all have been killed when the Enteprise hit that Magnetic anonmly and stopped very suddenly. Howwever, anything was possible in Enterprise series.

SB

[Cogito]

That is a function of physics. No way in hell can anthing ovecome that.

The same should be true of artificial gravity and warp drive, but without those it would be difficult to televise their adventures. The problems you're describing are caused by inertia, and inertial dampeners (or dampers - does anyone know which is the correct term in canon?) are the way Trek gets around it. They sort of, y'know, cancel out inertia. If you want to know how they do it, you'll have to ask Trip.