Galaxy's Greatest Romances -- Star Trek Magazine March 2011

[WarpGirl]

You rock Brandyjane!

[Silverbullet]

Brandy, mistreated is more like it. The GAWD Awful morning after scene in Harbinger left shock waves through the viewers. When she blew off Trip in E2 and then tells the old T'Pol that her Heart didn't know what it wanted. Baloney. the shower scene in Damage proved she knew what her Heart wanted and that was Trip. In bound she kisses him in public disregarding who might see it. She is telling him that she loves him without words. Of corse the real end of the series "Terra Prime" she acknowledges that she would be willing to have his child. What more is needed for a romance. It was mauled by the writers and probably by TPTB. Badly mishandled

SB

[WarpGirl]

But SB that just proves it was a very disfunctional relationship. Which in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. All relationships are in some way disfunctional. They both made a lot of mistakes to the detriment of their relationship, but they also had great potential. So being on the "serious list" and being on the "funny list" makes a lot of sense. Because they are both one of the "greats" and one of the "worst." You know what almost every couple I know falls into those catagories in real life.

[justTripn]

Yep! Good analysis Brandyjane et al.

[Silverbullet]

WG, I think your statement may be a bit of a generalization. I don't know.

Two people who were so in love he never looked at anoter female or she another male. She was his universe and he was very happy in it. the same for her. They were married for 60 some years. They have been my model for Trip and T'Pol. I speak of my Aunt and Uncle. He died last Christmas morning and she refuses to leave the house they lived in for over 50 years. She has too many memories there and wants to die there. she is conviced he is waiting for her in the next world which makes her life bearable without him.

SB

[WarpGirl]

Okay just because there are couples that are eternally devoted doesn't mean that they aren't disfunctional in some way. Heck my parents have been together well over 30 never once have either of them looked at another person but they are as dysfunctional as the day is long. No relationship is perfect, all couples have problems, even serious ones. The successful couples work together to get through them.

TnT never had the oppertunity to do so. So it makes perfect sense to have them on the "best" list, and the satirical "worst" list. They are still loved.

[panyasan]

Maybe it's the way I interupted the word "disfunctional" but I took it as a statement that TnT were bad for each other -their relationship only made it worse for them, so it should have been in their best interest to stop it.

That's how I am took the words "dysfunctional" (or as the statement was "most dysfunctional relationship in Trek). It came across to me as bashing of TnT.
The explanation later on of the word "disfunctional" made me understand it wasn't meant that way.

My personal view: I feel that TnT both deeply cared for each other, but to put it simply there were many obstacles in their way. It think they could have made it work - for the good of both.

I truly like Trip and T'Pol and if I haven't felt that they loved each other and cared for each other and can bring the best of each other into the relationship - I would be in favor of them not being together.

[WarpGirl]

Well that's not how I was using the word disfunctional. And I'm sorry it came across that way. Sometimes especially in the states people use the word to denote situations and relationships with a lot of tricky issues. That's not to say anything truly horrible or bad is there just that there are problems that need to be worked through. And let's face it there is no person or character in existence that doesn't have issues and quirks that cause serious problems in their lives.

I was certainly not bashing TnT I also happen to think were two extremely dysfunctional people in an extremely dysfunctional relationship but they got the oppertunity to work through it. TnT did not.

I think my entire quote was "the most disfunctional interspieces romance in ST" There are plenty of other relationships more disfunctional between the same spieces in ST. For example Picard/Vash. TnT do not have the market cornered on issues when it comes to love. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[justTripn]

So reporting back about the greatest romances of all time, I read the Garak and Bashir article. The author's premise is that Garak was definately flirting with Julian and "seducing" him. The author says whatever their relationship was, it wasn't a "bro-mance" like that between Julian and Miles O'Brian. He cites the physicality of some of the interactions, claiming that Garak gets in Julian's space, looks him in the eye and makes him nervous, and reaches out and touches him alot. He thinks that Julian being young and naive falls under Garak's spell, but by about season four, has grown up and is no longer able to be manipulated by him. I was a big fan of the Garak/Bashir relationship and though I don't think I saw all that, but I saw SOMETHING that grabbed me. I do remember the evolution of the Bashir character from someone young and naive and insuffable to someone more experienced and sure of himself in a good way. I loved that.

[WarpGirl]

But didn't Garek marry Gul Dukat's half Bajorian daughter? Julian had a lot of women as well if my memory serves and ended up with Ezri Dax. IDK I'm one of those people that is like make up your mind please. Don't go jerking characters around. If a character is gay, than it's gay, straight is straight. And if a character is bi then make sure we know they're bi but if they're in a commited relationship keep it that way. But please don't go around vacillating depending on the mood.

[justTripn]

No Garak was supposed to take care of Ziyal (sp?) when she came to to the space station, but I always thought it was a father/daughter type thing. In any case, she died soon afterwards.

[WarpGirl]

I could of sworn I remember him him kissing her and Kira was ticked off because they wanted to get married. Oh well the last episode I say of DS9 was years before I moved from NY. Maybe it was something else.

[justTripn]

Yuck, well . . . I'm just going on memory also. We could look it up and settle the issue . . .

[WarpGirl]

I tried. If I find it I'll let you know. But like I said DS9 and I never really got along at all.

[enterprikayak]

He cites the physicality of some of the interactions, claiming that Garak gets in Julian's space, looks him in the eye and makes him nervous, and reaches out and touches him alot.

imo, I always got the feeling that was kind of a Cardassian/Obsidian Order type of on-purpose physical dominance thing. Not a guy-on-guy romance thing. (No that there would be anything wrong with that.)