Star Trek Valentine issue

[Silverbullet]

If you are going to think of that episode as a romance between Janeway and Chakoty, how about the one where Janeway and Paris are on a planets surface where they are amphibians. They have offspring (which was left on the surface when they wre resuced and returned to their human s hapes) Paris aplogizes to Janeway for the offspring and she sort of hints that she wasn't all that displeased that could be romantic.

Paris and torres was handled better than Trip and t'Pol but was not as intense. They were brought together naturally and only admitted their love when it seemed they would die in space. Maybe if Trip and T'Pol had been in a similar situation they may have finally told one another that they loved each other.

SB

[Asso]

Sorry, Dis. Sometimes I forget that words can have different meanings or different nuances in the different languages. Seraphical, in this case, has to be intended as a compliment: the capability of watching things with a distant but not cold equanimity, trying to conciliate extremes, or - better - to find the causes of something with "seraphical" patience and magnanimity.

[pdsldl]

Don't forget Janeway and holodeck Irish guy. They had more airtime than most of the named romances.

[enterprikayak]

Okay, here are the Greatest romances: Kirk and Keeler, Spock and Uhura, Picard and Crusher and Janeway and Chakoty.

Left out are Riker and Troi, Paris and torres,and of courese Trip and T'Pol

I cannot remember any romance between Janeway and Chakoty. If I recall Picard and Crusher was referred to but never shown, i.e. Picard admitted he had loved Crusher secretly for years and in one film (I believe) Cusher and Picard had been married and was now divoreced. but that was it.

In the sries TOS no Spck and Uhura but Nurse Chappel admitted to Loving Spock.

Anyway, that is the line up for the Valentine issue.

Comments?

SB

Kirk/Keeler = one episode only
spock/uhura = commercial for Star Trek "2" (12)
picard/crusher and janeway/chakotay???= ummmm....if that's romance then the human race is doomed.

yeah what about the whole troi/Riker "Imzadi" thing they did for all of tng, and what about chakotay and SEVEN? that was way more "romantic" than him and Janeway. And what about tom and belanna and what about Odo/Kira (if we're gonna pay attn to keeler, then odo should rank way above that) and Trip/T'Pol of course. If we're gonna do ones where the captain fell for a flavour of the week, why not throw in Kamala the empathic metamorph, Vash, and Lt Cmdr Nella Dean?

[WarpGirl]

If you are going to think of that episode as a romance between Janeway and Chakoty, how about the one where Janeway and Paris are on a planets surface where they are amphibians. They have offspring (which was left on the surface when they wre resuced and returned to their human s hapes) Paris aplogizes to Janeway for the offspring and she sort of hints that she wasn't all that displeased that could be romantic.

Paris and torres was handled better than Trip and t'Pol but was not as intense. They were brought together naturally and only admitted their love when it seemed they would die in space. Maybe if Trip and T'Pol had been in a similar situation they may have finally told one another that they loved each other.

SB

Okay firstly there's a huge fandom for J/P, I personally think it's too Mrs. Robinson but if B'Lanna wasn't alive, and Tom was 5 years older I could see it. Chakotay could be very boring.

Second SB no fair! P/T was the most sexually intense ST pairing, just because they never got naked doesn't mean it wasn't intense. I suggest you watch Blood Fever and Scientific Method not even TnT at their hottest approached the raw passionate sexuality of P/T in those episodes. Then again P/T didn't have Jeri Taylor in their corner. Shame really. If Jeri Taylor had been involved with TnT it could have gotten even better than it was.

Third, they didn't only admit their love when it appeared they were going to die, there was many episodes showing an actual courtship. They "dated", they talked to each other, there was a solid relationship before they went for the confessions. Although Tom did take 3 more years to actually say the words. But with his childhood you can't really blame him.

[panyasan]

I took the words "not so intense" not in a sexual way, especially because SB stated "they came together more naturally" and "their relationship was handled better."
It seems like he was saying their relationship grew more slowly together or better said: we saw more that they grew slowly together. I think TnT developed also from friendship till a relationship, only there were more (in my eyes sometimes stupid) blocks in the way.
But everything is in the eye of the beholder.

[WarpGirl]

Oh no they did. TnT were definitely friends! But they never "courted" each other emotionally, one never pursued the other, Trip tried but only after he slept with T'Pol. Both Tom and B'Elanna deliberately pursued the relationship. Setting up times for meals together without Harry, holodeck activities, being each other's "Dates" for ship gatherings, all with the hope that they'd eventually be able to make things work. Nearly dying just rushed the time table a bit.

TnT just kind of jumped off a cliff. You had a very steady friendship/attraction thing going then BOOM! They're in bed, then they're on the outs, then they're friends who are in love but apart, then they're bondmates, then they're grieving parents, and finally broken up and Trip's dead. Yeah I guess it is "intense" but neither of them set out to pair up. Tom and B'Elanna decided to start courting each other late season 2. It was a deliberate thing.

I'm not making sense.

[enterprikayak]

You're making perfect sense.

[WarpGirl]

Thanks! Still, this Valentines Issue stinks! I mean cutting out TnT for the other choices was bad enough, but to leave out Riker/Troi, P/T and what about Worf/K? Come on this is awful for more than just the TnT oversight.

[Silverbullet]

Well, yes except we don't acknowledge the "Abomination" so Trip and T'Pol are holding hands at the real end of the Seris and seem to be headed for a real relationsip.

SB

[WarpGirl]

We might not acknowledge *the_abomination* but TPTB do, and since we're talking about the magazine it applies. Still, I'd say that P/T are just as "hot" and intense as TnT and I find it cool that they managed it without stripping. Then again RDM had a habit of knawing on RD's neck quite a bit. That helped!

[Aikiweezie]

To be perfectly fair to them, SB, I don't think the writers ever crossed over into true romance with TnT. There was friendship and there was sex. Romance? Not so much.

We read alot into the relationship on this site, but what actually appeared on screen was more like friends with benefits.

That's not what got out of it when I look at it as objectively as I can. Trip admitted that he was in love with her, and even in the "abomination" she refers to their defunct "romance."

What I saw was bad communication, culture clash and missed opportunities.

According to Manny Cotto their relationship was going to deepen in Season 5.

I think "resolution" to their romance as presented "the_abomination" was just lazy, sloppy writing. B & B didn't want to deal with that whole T & T thing in a one hour eposide. I mean the COMPLETELY ignored the bond that was such a big deal.

[Silverbullet]

That Bond which could have been the clincher for their romance was mishandled too. When Trip was on the Columbia nd she was on Enterprise, there was at least a light day or more between them (billions of miles) their minds joinned. I could never accept that T'Pol just thought it was a day dream since she accepted Trip was in her white space and she told him to leave. Certainly she should have asked him if he had a dream like that. Instead all she asks him is if he has daydreams about her. In Demons he says he is sick of the bond and she says that she doesn't particuarly enjoy it either. T'Pol should have studied the bond by then and known that it was permament for them and that they should learn to deal with it and use it properly. That didn't happen. It is no wonder that the Bond was ignored in the Abomination since it was trashed in the series.

SB

[WarpGirl]

That's not what got out of it when I look at it as objectively as I can. Trip admitted that he was in love with her, and even in the "abomination" she refers to their defunct "romance."

What I saw was bad communication, culture clash and missed opportunities.

According to Manny Cotto their relationship was going to deepen in Season 5.

I think "resolution" to their romance as presented "the_abomination" was just lazy, sloppy writing. B & B didn't want to deal with that whole T & T thing in a one hour eposide. I mean the COMPLETELY ignored the bond that was such a big deal.

Can't both be true? Undeniably they both loved each other very much. But "on-screen" we didn't see a true comitted romantic relationship because they never got that far. Bad writing? Probably. But also just not enough time. The way the show was formatted we were dealing with different Arcs (Xindi and Time Wars) and TnT didn't have a continuous development. It was a series of huge moments. With little or nothing in between.

[Silverbullet]

Frankly, I could have easily done without the Xndi Arc. What in its place? who knows but anything would have been better.

SB