What can T'pol say to trip that is special

[Silverbullet]

WG, you are right. However, I am taking it from the viewpoint that T'Pol is saying that they have made a lifelong commitment. She says when a vulcan Mates. That doesn't sound like "when a Vulcan has Sex" It means something more permanent. A bond too sounds like something more permanent. so she is saying that they are bond mates for life. Trip when he asks about the Bond is accepting that the Bond exists which means he accepts the whole package. Later he may say it is no big deal but he tacitly admits it is a deal.

In Demons he says he is "sick of this Bond we have" Doesn't mean nhe want to sever just that it is annoying him. T'Pol says "I don't enjoy it either." also meaning it can bee a trial at times but neither is saying they want to get rid of it. From the dialogue they ar eobviously a bondedMated couple. In the episode they were always side bhy side whenever possible. The came in to Sickbay side by side. sat in the conference room at the table side by side.

Paxton called them the Star Crossed Lovers.

that seems to confirm that they were Bond Mates for life.

The writers mishandled the bond badly. they never developed it. Grat opportunity t open a new avenue for TnT.

[WarpGirl]

SB as I said there are multiple ways of looking at the situation with no "right or wrong" answers. I simply have the viewpoint that T'Pol doesn't have a real clue as to what a mating bond is or how it works at the time of Bound. Later on, sure she'll study the Kir'Shara more and learn what it is. But during the time in which they are living in the episode I believe they have no clue. By the time of Demons and Terra Prime it is a different situation.

[Brandyjane]

Alelou, WG, Trip probably would like any expression from T'Pol. But I am supposing that T'Pol really wants him to know that he is the ONE and ONLY and that she wants to express that in a way that says so. Those other three things are general. Never liked that "I have feelings for you" What in Hell does Feelings mean? I can have feelings of Hatred for something or feelings of amusement. A true expression of Love. SB

Does it have to be words? Could she perhaps start doing things like holding his hand in public, sharing intimate thoughts with him in private, and just, in general, be more affectionate with him? Now, I don't mean that you should turn her into a human, but I think that she might make some compromises to accommodate a human mate. Trip and T'Pol are really bad verbal communicators, so maybe the route to take is to have her show him that she loves him with actions, not words.

Of course, depending on the scene you have in mind, that might not work. You could always have T'Pol very logically explain that she is having trouble finding words that Trip would understand, due to their cultural differences and past history, but that as a Vulcan she esteems him greatly, cherishes him, in fact, and to use human terms, she loves him and wants to be his wife.

[Silverbullet]

Actually, Brandyjane, expressing a desire to be his wife probably would do it. she is saying that she wants to make their mating official with a ceremony so the world would know. that would be a big step and tell him in terms he could understand that he is the one and only.

Problem is, how does she say it. Vulcans don't express emotions (usually) she has expressed them to Trip twice: one when she Seduced by not denying she had "Feelings" for him when he said she did. then in bound when she said she wanted him to come back and then kissed him in the hallway.

Of course Trip was caught by surprise both times. when she dropped the Robe showing him the goodies and when she kissed him in the hallway.

I just wish TPTB had carried on the seduction scene longer so we could have seen them talking together after getting it on. I wonder what they would have said? Expressions of LOVE? surely something after having Sex. doubt if either would have considered that Sex act as something causal or that they were having a one night stand. NOT Trip or T'Pol. which makes that damned morning after scene implausible.

I ramble, as usual.

SB

[WarpGirl]

I don''t think they said much. If they did, the "morning after" wouldn't have happened because Trip would have been more confident. Look my advice keep it simple. Have T'Pol say let's get married. And skip trying to make it mushy. Just saying let's get married is MUSHY for a Vulcan. Let her be exactly who she is.

[Enerdhil]

It is interesting how the discussion spreads out. My original feeling is that, when T'Pol claims the 'mate' question, she is not making reference to the fact they have done sex (that, on my humble opinion, was not absolutely limited to the displayed first night) but really that they mated because of sharing a common and intense link one to the other (love, if you wish to put on human terms, shared interests and mental links in Vulcan terms). And Trip response is not related to the sexual behavior (animal, as someone stated) but because he tries to hurt her (being somewhat resented of remaining in second plane after Awakening and not being able to separate his feelings from their professional life - Aenar) - he had previously recognized he loved her.

[Alelou]

I like that explanation. It certainly makes more sense for someone who thinks they messed around a heck of a lot more than once.

[Silverbullet]

I have always believed that they settled their differences after "Bound" and started an intimate (sexual and emotional) relationship. Certainly by Demons and Terra Prime.

I believe that some FanFic writers have them going to Vulcan to bury Elizabeth and there they have the discussion that is needed and they come back to Earth as a commited couple. I buy that entirely.

[WarpGirl]

Okay, I must be missing something because I even though SYFY has no comprehensible schedual, for ENT I've read every transcript and they never said or did anything after Harbinger or before Bound that makes me think they were carrying on a sexual relationship. After Zero Hour it's obvious they overcame the Mess that was Harbinger- Azati Prime, but that doesn't mean they were having sex. I just took it to mean they were back to supporting one another and attemtpting to figure out how to get to the next level without the disaster of another "morning after" but Home killed it. Of course they were together after Bound!

But frankly I really don't think Trip was trying to be hurtful when he says they didn't mate. And it's kind of obvious T'Pol has no idea what a mating bond is. So I doubt either of them thought about it interms of emotional commitment at that point,

[Alelou]

We've argued this one out before. Different strokes.

[Silverbullet]

WG. agree. T'Pol was trying to make up with Trip when she first called him Trip and later when she told him her age and said it was a very intimate thing to tell ones age in Vulcan Society.

Home blew that. But in bound she again tries and gets stiff armed byy Trip. I always thought he was getting a little of his own back. Also thought that a bit later they came to terms and started an imtimate relationship.

I have flogged this horse many times before. Demons and Terra Prime seems to indicate they were having Sex. There were too many references of T'Pol not having been Pregnant. The way it is said seems to indicate they were intimate and that she had not got Pregnant by Trip during that relationship.

Phlox even says that T'Pol could not have gotten Pregnant without Trip knowing or had the Embryo removed without Trip's knowledge. Trip agrees. I am not sure how much time elapsed between the Seduction in Harbinger and Demons but if she got Pregnant from that night Phlox would have known as she probably would not know what was happening to her so she consults him and he sees that she is Pregnant. If she asked him to remove the Embryo I think that Phlox would demand to know the name of the Father as he needed the Fathers consent to remove the Embyro. Doubt if Trip would give that consent.

But no, I do not believe they had resumed Sexual relatioons between Harbinger and Bound, afterwards, yes. But not before

[WarpGirl]

Well I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse. It's just that every single time it comes up people start talking like there are those of us who are too blind to notice what's in front of our faces. And we're left with the feeling "what the h-e- double-hockey sticks did we miss?" What scene or line did we not get? It's irritating. Not because we don't agree but because we can't find what everyone else it talking about. I've spent hours reviewing screencaps transcripts, and even re-runs. I'm sick of being lost that's all. It's not the person who disagrees with me I get annoyed with it's myself.

[Alelou]

It's simply a matter of personal interpretation, because you're right -- we don't see anything on screen. But there are stretches of time in the series in which some people would assume the two of them are probably doing more than just politely chatting (i.e on the trip to Vulcan). Others would not. Either view could be equally valid, according to canon and how you interpret Trip's remark "We didn't mate" and what you think those two are capable of at any given moment in the series. I've gone back and forth on it myself, with different versions in different stories, but if I had to choose what I think is most realistic for two adults with their history, I'd say they were sharing a bed again before "Home."

[Silverbullet]

WG, you are not missing anything. All of us come away with a different interpretation of an Episode. Also stories in Fanfic. The writer may have meant one thing and some see something entirely diferent in the story. Not unusual.

So, you are not missing anything nor is anyone disagreeing with you. Just seeing things slightly the other way.

There are episodes that some adore that others dislike or even hate. Life

SB

[Aikiweezie]

It's simply a matter of personal interpretation, because you're right -- we don't see anything on screen. But there are stretches of time in the series in which some people would assume the two of them are probably doing more than just politely chatting (i.e on the trip to Vulcan). Others would not. Either view could be equally valid, according to canon and how you interpret Trip's remark "We didn't mate" and what you think those two are capable of at any given moment in the series. I've gone back and forth on it myself, with different versions in different stories, but if I had to choose what I think is most realistic for two adults with their history, I'd say they were sharing a bed again before "Home."

The horse is dead but I'll continue beating it anyway. Trip's remark, "What does you mom know about me...about us?" Sealed it for me. Can't imagine he'd say that about a one night thing months ago.

As far as the "This thing between us, in't that big of a deal," I am convinced after watching it many, many times that he means the on-again, off-again relationship, not the bond. Their messed up relationship wasn't worth leaving Enterprise over. She agreed. I can't imagine either one, especially T'Pol would dismiss the bond as "no big deal."

***Novel SPOILER *****


In the novels T'Pol returns Trip's "I love you," through the bond. Now whether that was an actual saying of the words in her mind or an emotion, that Trip picked up, I couldn't tell you.

There's been a lot of discussions to whether Vulcans CAN love, or would ever SAY that they love someone. I am firmly in the "of course they can/do camp." They would have different ways of expressing and saying it most likely. I just recently heard a radio show discussing different types of love. In English we mostly use one word, "love" to say everything from, "I love you," to "I love pizza" and "let's make love." Very different things and probably confsing to someone who has different words to express the different types of that feeling.