Abandoned stories

[WarpGirl]

Yes, it is ironic that we are having this discussion when fanfiction is basically finishing someone else's work. Yes, we don't make any money from it and yes, our work in the fanfic world is not copyright protected.

But we have operated under an unspoken code of conduct where we respect that the work of fanfiction does belong to the author of said work. We treat it like it's copyrighted and therefore the writers feel safe sharing their work without worry that someone else is going to steal it or modify it. If we did not operate with this unspoken rule, how many fanfic authors would still be writing fanfic? Not I. And I'm pretty sure that the majority, if not all, of the authors that we love in this realm wouldn't have posted anything.

Sure it's frustrating for a reader to come upon a wonderful fic that is not finished and probably never will be. This is the nature of the beast. It happens and will happen as long as fanfic exists.

You have to ask yourself even before you contact an author of unfinished work: Can you really capture the voice of that author? Can you basically be a ghost writer -- write in such a way that no one can tell that another is penning the words now? Seriously? This is why I think it's arrogant. It happens in the published world. Brandon Sanderson is taking over finishing Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. (The author lost his battle with cancer). But honestly, not after the two met several times and Brandon Sanderson was hired because his "voice" was similar enough to Jordan's. And I'm pretty darn sure that Sanderson wasn't the one who contacted Jordan and said, "Hey, I hear you're dying and I think I could finish your series for you." Nuh-uh. Sanderson was contacted by Jordan and interviewed.

So really, does anyone honestly think they are unbiased enough about their own writing voice to say, "Yeah, I'm seriously as good as you and think much like you -- so let me finish your work"?? Not bloody likely.

Oh and in the event of my death -- I don't think there is a single author in the fanfic world that I believe could finish my work for me -- especially my alternate MU stuff. Not because I think I'm that good -- not in the least!! -- but because no one writes like I do. No one sees the characters the same way I do and no one has a freaking clue where I planned to take the story.

I'm a laid back person, but I've had my intellectual property stolen before, and I'll be damned if in this "safe" bubble of fanfiction we stop respecting those boundaries.

AMEN SISTER! It's just repulsive that anyone could possibly say "oh they haven't touched this in years fair game" and unfortunately I have seen this happen in a fic community. It's even worse in FanArt. I can't tell you how I saw talented authors and artists being abused in this way. Of course it wasn't this fandom, but the damage was severe. And frankly I'm with Misplaced, it's not ego to be offended by the idea that someone else has my voice. I could never give my work to someone else. And to think someone might believe they could have my voice and think that its OK just if they ask... No! Not cool.

[aadarshinah]

*holds up hands* I'm not saying it's the ideal solution and am largely playing devil's advocate here, but if, say, there was one story we all really wanted finished and no one had heard tale of that person in years, and, say, someone jokingly suggested to a similar writer in the group "wouldn't that be great if you finished this?" and so on... I'm not saying that just, as a single person, take over someone's idea. But if the community sort of "asks for it" and the author is so fully AWOL that, in all likelihood, they are dead or no longer care about their stories...

As for intellecutal property "not existing" back in Shakespeare's day, I'd argue that it did exist, just wasn't protected the same way it is now.

[Alelou]

[And to think someone might believe they could have my voice and think that its OK just if they ask... No! Not cool.

Just to clarify: are you saying it's not even okay to ask?

Granted, I think most authors would be irritated to at least some degree by the question, but I would hope that might be balanced by at least a slight degree of flattery that someone is that interested in your story. To my mind a polite no is really all that is required.

You know what REALLY irritates me? When someone asks me to write the story for THEIR plot. That always boggles my mind. But even so, I know it's just someone being clueless on the other end.

There just aren't a whole lot of evil souls in this fanfic universe. It probably helps that any potential profit is completely out of the picture.

[Linda]

Hm, interesting point that fanfic is basically using other authors' characters and plots and whole universe, actually. But I don't feel bad about doing, perhaps because they were paid for it and we aren't; because we have implied permission since they haven't kicked us off the internet yet; and because the ST universe is a group effort and now considered a very public modern myth. And who own's myths? Roddenbery once did own the original idea and some organization still owns the franchise, but the ST universe, merely by its popularity, has grown way, way beyond that. And there actually are limits to an author's copyright that eventually puts their work into the public domain. Over at fanficton.net there is a list of authors who do not want their work fan-fictionalized and as far as I know, fan fiction writers have respected that. I have not heard any ST author requesting that, so I feel okay with using their characters and hope they take it as a compliment.

[Misplaced]

*holds up hands* I'm not saying it's the ideal solution and am largely playing devil's advocate here, but if, say, there was one story we all really wanted finished and no one had heard tale of that person in years, and, say, someone jokingly suggested to a similar writer in the group "wouldn't that be great if you finished this?" and so on... I'm not saying that just, as a single person, take over someone's idea. But if the community sort of "asks for it" and the author is so fully AWOL that, in all likelihood, they are dead or no longer care about their stories...

As for intellecutal property "not existing" back in Shakespeare's day, I'd argue that it did exist, just wasn't protected the same way it is now.

I understand that you're playing devil's advocate here, but even in the case that a mob with pitchforks and knives want to finish a fic whether or not the author is available for contact... it still is not okay in my mind. Would we relegate the rule to only unfinished fics or would we eventually start to include fics that to us are screaming for a sequel? I mean, this is a slippery slope you're talking about here. And if you're talking about finishing the work of authors who are superb writers, who do you have take over? Even if you find someone who has a similar voice, how do you know they'd actually be willing to finish someone else's work?

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is breaching an unspoken barrier. You can be assured that if this becomes allowable here, I will be leaving. It's not that I believe my work in any danger... It is the notion that we stop respecting someone else's right to their work, even if they are MIA for years, that bothers me to no end.

And again... This is fanfiction. There will be tons of fics that get started and never finished. I say move on and find something else that is complete to enjoy.

[Rigil Kent]

Add my voice to those who would be stringently, violently, aggressively opposed to someone deciding to "finish" an uncompleted story that they didn't start. Even when the follow-up author has permission from the original author, it's never exactly the same because no two people write the same way and everyone has their own take on things. Because of that difference, the story would automatically have a different feel to it. For example, I've yet to finish my MU Endeavour fic (mostly due to general lack of interest in the mirror universe), but if someone decided to finish it for me, even if that someone was a friend, I'd be very annoyed. A while back, somebody actually started a fic over at fanfiction.net based heavily on my Endeavour stuff - permission was never asked and, while I was vaguely flattered, I was also a little irked that the person in question didn't even bother trying to contact me beforehand.

So yeah ... I'd definitely be opposed to something like this, even if it was the "community" behind it (which doesn't track for me because we all have differing opinions about everything.)

[WarpGirl]

[And to think someone might believe they could have my voice and think that its OK just if they ask... No! Not cool.

Just to clarify: are you saying it's not even okay to ask?

There just aren't a whole lot of evil souls in this fanfic universe. It probably helps that any potential profit is completely out of the picture.

No, you can ask... BUT it's hubris for anyone to assume they could emulate someone enough to essentially ghost write for others. Espescially as Misplaced pointed out, when authors do collaberate and ghost write for each other the original author specifically chooses author and they plan it out together. A hot shot author doesn't ask an original author to start working on their stuff.

I hate HATE all the "continuations," and re-tellings, of Jane Austen's stories, and others. It's rediculous. Nobody can emulate Jane Austen, I don't care how good they are. They might even be better, but they are NOT Jane Austen. And while evil people might not exist in this fandom (although I'd say they exist somewhere) they do exist I've known them.

As for intellecutal property "not existing" back in Shakespeare's day, I'd argue that it did exist, just wasn't protected the same way it is now.

Hence my assertion that it didn't exist In the sense that we know it. That isn't to say it didn't exist at all.

I understand that you're playing devil's advocate here, but even in the case that a mob with pitchforks and knives want to finish a fic whether or not the author is available for contact... it still is not okay in my mind. Would we relegate the rule to only unfinished fics or would we eventually start to include fics that to us are screaming for a sequel? I mean, this is a slippery slope you're talking about here. And if you're talking about finishing the work of authors who are superb writers, who do you have take over? Even if you find someone who has a similar voice, how do you know they'd actually be willing to finish someone else's work?

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is breaching an unspoken barrier. You can be assured that if this becomes allowable here, I will be leaving. It's not that I believe my work in any danger... It is the notion that we stop respecting someone else's right to their work, even if they are MIA for years, that bothers me to no end.

And again... This is fanfiction. There will be tons of fics that get started and never finished. I say move on and find something else that is complete to enjoy.

Amen!!!!!!!! As an author of a massive unfinished fic, 50 chapters and 283 pages, I am not cool with the idea of someone just taking over because they think I don't care or might be dead! And if this community start allowing that I'm gone too.

So yeah ... I'd definitely be opposed to something like this, even if it was the "community" behind it (which doesn't track for me because we all have differing opinions about everything.)

THAT TOO!

[Reanok]

I agree with Rigil and Misplaced .That someone wanting to take another persons work and wanting to finish their stories without getting their permission is plagirism and that's just not right.The stories are the copyright of the authors who created them.It's not cool to try and take another's work and finish it wouldn't be same type of story as the person who originally created the story the fans of the story would know the difference in writing styles.. I've seen this happen before at another site and the original writer protested and their fans also weren't happy about their story being stolen and rewritten without their permission. it was removed from the site and the creator finished their story.

[WarpGirl]

Well to be fair getting permission is important to the person who started this topic. But the remifications go beyond plagerism. And there's the fact that you can't just assume "Yeah I can write like they can!" Because you can't determine that on your own.

[crystalswolf]

I think what it boils down to is that each author will have a different reaction when even broaching the subject. Personally, I have no problem with someone continuing one of my stories so long as permission is obtained first, dead or alive. If I don't like their interpretation, I would chalk it up to the way I don't like how some interpret TnT. It's just the way I feel about (my) fanfiction. But I can definitely understand where others feel more protective about what they create as well.

Now here's something that will put all of this in a different perspective (I didn't really think of it like this until today). The site that many of us have used, http://www.stogeek.com/wiki/Category:Vu ... _Institute which is abandoned, unfinished work gathered and reposted without the author(s) permission (from what I understand, it was a collaboration headed by one person). And on this site, they admitted to adding when possible. I believe many entries in the database site come from this repost as well.

Now I feel absolutely horrid.

[WarpGirl]

There's one thing though the site you're referencing is a cut and copy, yes, HOWEVER the origional Vulcan Language Institute was developed by someone who compiled and worked to develop Vulcan resources that TPTB themselves authorized and used for canon ST. The "new" site doesn't really do any development, just compiling stuff we already had in different sources.

[crystalswolf]

TPTB authorized? I must have missed that. From what I remember when I read the author's reason for creating the language was because there was very little interest in the Vulcan language. TPTB were more interested in Klingon which is why they hired someone to flesh out that language. I think I even remember a note saying that the man tried to sell the ideas to TPTB and was constantly rejected. Did they use the material at some point? I don't know, I haven't heard any ref to it.

As for just cut and paste... not quite.

Text is taken verbatim from the archives and only edited to suit formatting and to avoid ambiguation. Occasionaly we have split some pages into more meaningful sections, or retitled them for the same reason. It is my hope that one day the project may be advanced here, but for now we will present the information we have in the best possible way that we can.

splitting pages into more "meaningful" sections and "retitling them for the same reason" seems a lot like inserting their perspective into the material. In language creation, this could be equivalent to reposting fanfic and changing paragraphs around. Perhaps there was a reason why the material was in the format that it was by those originally involved.

It is my hope that one day the project may be advanced here, but for now we will present the information we have in the best possible way that we can.

Now this is a little more ambiguous as they do not state what would allow them to "advance" the material but clues such as "may be advanced here" suggest that they want to finish it and not the original authors.

Also, this argument can be extended that it is just as disrespectful to post someone's work elsewhere without permission, even if the author is no where to be found. How many fanfic authors would be okay with their story posted elsewhere?


Edit: BTW, I only brought this up as an example that people who do this may not do it to hurt anyone and that even when we think we are respecting the work of others, someone may see it differently.

[Alelou]

It may not be exactly Jane Austen, but I really enjoyed the job done finishing Sanditon by Another Lady.

I would agree most of the JA wannabes just don't rate, though. If you're that desperate, I'd recommend trying Patrick O'Brien's Captain Aubrey novels instead -- to me, those have a similar vibe, even though they're told from the manly adventurous seaman side of the equation.

[honeybee]

I would just like to chime in my objection to the idea of approaching authors offering to finish their fics. While some might not mind, I can imagine many being insulted, angry and generally furious at the presumptuousness. It would certainly reflect badly on any site willing to promote or post such fics.

I certainly would not allow a story of mine to be finished by anyone but me, unless they were the most trusted of friends and even in that case I would have deep reservations about it.

[pdsldl]

I've read a couple stories that have been completed by other than the original writer and I've found I didn't like them much. I'd think it would be very difficult to keep the same style and consistency when the idea and plot(s) are someone else's that you are trying to understand. I would love to see several stories completed but to me this option is as bad as a writer that losses interest or ideas and just finishes the story to get it done without truly being into it.