Non-TnT pairings

[Aquarius]

I'm like "OK I can see you not liking TnT, but why does that mean you hate Trip?

Well by extension, that's why I hate to see the Archer-hate that gets spewed around here sometimes. Liking one doesn't mean a de facto hate for the other. I think we forget sometimes that fans of all stripes may be among us. Some may read TnT as well as TnA, because T'Pol is the common denominator...or TnT and Tucker/Reed, etc.

If we don't like it, we can do the simple thing and not read it.

[WarpGirl]

Well to be fair, some of the Archer hate is because of the episodes where he is not at his best as a Captain or a friend. But I'll admit I've mellowed some and find extreme cases just as rediculous. But what I was referring to was making Trip a nasty drunk and stuff. Not general dislike. One was so bad they made Trip terribly abusive. I'm just saying, that kind of hate... Not the 'typical' Archer hate. I was thinking more extreme.

[honeybee]

Well, I think you've hit on an interesting point, Aquarius. I actually think that sometimes fic writers get their creative hands tied due to the biases and general pig-headed-ness and mean-spirited nature of some fans. Love triangles may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they do provide fertile creative ground. The fact that you dealt with hate spewed from people and threats to boycott B&K simply because Archer thinks about T'Pol romantically in that story - when its a TnT story all the way - is indicative of how closed-minded fans can squelch creativity. I admire you for sticking to your creative guns and writing the story you wanted to write. Those people who refused to read it are robbing themselves of a well-written and interesting story that explores what happens when two people who share the same mutual friend pair off. People have every right not to read that fic if they want, of course, but again, it's their loss. I've read a few full-on AT&T love triangle stories that are good reads as well. I like when TnT is the endgame, of course.

As I said in the Twilight thread, if your Archer-hate is keeping you from watching that episode, you're missing a well-directed, well-acted episode that provides insight into both Trip and T'Pol's characters in a 'what if' situation. It's your loss.

[WarpGirl]

OK I actually agree with most of that, but to play devil's advocate there are times in the show where Archer is a jerk. Both in a personal and professional way. Do people over-do it? Of course they do. And frankly even on my worst do-not-like-Archer day I would not read a fic where he was being abusive, or for lack of a better term "evil." But there is a canonical basis for making him a little screwy. With Trip in the RU there is no basis for making him, abusive, degrading, hoorible person. There's also the fact that not every person who does not like Archer feels that way because of TnT. I know people who dislike TnT and still don't like the man.

Also considering one of my favorite episodes is Extinction, individual opinions on what are great episodes will always vary. That said, I might watch it today on Hulu haven't decided.

[Aquarius]

And again, it's not so much what the opinion is that's being stated, but *how* it's being stated that can make it cross the line from expressing dissatisfaction with a particular episode/turn in character development/acting/whatever into what one would call "Archer hate." If I read it and get the impression the poster would be turning red and foaming at the mouth if they were speaking it, it's Archer hate. If someone brings it up at every possible opportunity to hammer away at how much they hate Archer, it's Archer hate. If it seems a little irrational that the discussion is getting someone *that* upset over a character, when they could simply go find another discussion to participate in, that's Archer hate. And if someone looks to be trying to make themselves appear superior because of how much they hate Archer, chances are it's Archer hate.

[WarpGirl]

And if someone looks to be trying to make themselves appear superior because of how much they hate Archer, chances are it's Archer hate.

And what about people who make themselves superior by saying how much they don't hate something? Isn't that reverse-bashing?

In any case, all I was trying to say is that if people who don't like a certain ship or character (any character) and use that as an excuse to write something where that person is "the scum of the earth" it's crazy. And even though there are a few people here who think Archer is that bad, (I don't) I've yet to see a non-MU story here that does it.

[panyasan]

Non-TnT pairings? Outside TnT I don't find much pairs that interesting, but I can imagine a couple of pairs that may to the trick. I have thought about a story where Hoshi is on away mission and falls in love with this very unique Romulan and I would be interested in Hoshi/T'Pol friendship fics (not as pair) set in the first seasons (because after Sleeping Dogs there was hardly any interaction between the two. I always got the feeling Hoshi couldn't care less about T'Pol).
I got a very interesting vibe between Malcolm and an Andorian woman (Talas?) - would be a nice story: Trip with a Vulcan and Malcolm with an tough Andorian woman. One story with Malcolm/Amanda Cole that I found very interesting made me open for that possiblity.
As for Archer - I never saw any hint of him with T'Pol. However, I like Erika and Archer together, but I always picture him mourning Erika's death after the Romulan war and always being alone, focussed on his carreer. There is also the alien he met during Two days, two nights- I saw some chemistry there. I kind of like Archer - he is a very different person then Trip and he has some terrible flaws, but I like writing from his point of view.

[Aquarius]

And if someone looks to be trying to make themselves appear superior because of how much they hate Archer, chances are it's Archer hate.

And what about people who make themselves superior by saying how much they don't hate something? Isn't that reverse-bashing?

No. Chances are it's someone who came to celebrate the show and is tired of unnecessary negativity. Likewise, I hardly see where it's detrimental to any individual or community for someone to say "I like this character, I think he's great!" or even "He's okay, I don't know what you're getting so bent out of shape about"--as long as they're not trashing on another character in the process. No one ever said that it isn't okay to dislike Archer. No one ever said it isn't okay to say so. What we *are* saying is be nice about it, and mind the fact that there are fans of all stripes who visit here so while we're here to love on one thing, we're not here to hate on something else. Severity and frequency of such negativity can even push it into the realm of trolling--something no admin enjoys warning someone about. And if anyone's confused about that, I'll be happy to field their questions via PM.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to continue to discuss this as it relates to pairings, or anything relating to pairings, have at it.

[honeybee]

Just to back up Aquarius, nobody is saying anyone can't like a pairing or any other aspect of the show. The new rules are designed to keep the tone respectful - and keep out trolls. Unfortunately, our little community got a reputation (somewhat unfairly) for being a haven for trolls and bashers - and we admins all agreed that had to change. I think part of the problem is that it's very difficult to be rude while your praising, all too easy to slip into vitriol when you are being negative. I've done it myself - and been properly warned by my fellow mods. Yes, we tell each other to cool it from time to time.

Basically, we want TnT fans of all stripes, even casual ones, to feel comfortable here. We got a lot of feedback saying that wasn't the case and we truly believe that the more TnT fans who feel comfortable participating here the more lively and fun the conversation will be.

I mean, for me, I'm a TnT shipper all the way. Other ENT pairings remain fluid curiosities for me. I wrote Reed/Sato into one of my stories - but I never shipped them onscreen and I am not sure I ever felt real chemistry between them. In Family Secrets, I had people actively shipping for Hoshi and an OC character who was causing trouble between R/S. That was flattering and wonderful. But, just because I had that experience -I wouldn't want to metaphorically go kick the shins of R/S fans - and I've enjoyed a good R/S story by a good writer. Chemistry is in the eye of the beholder, often. I'd love to talk about the merits of R/S with one of their shippers and have a conversation rather than a flame war.

I also wrote a Reed/Amanda Cole Romance into Dusk - and I think that was a more successful pairing - just the way I wrote it.

For me, it was simply too much Archer and not enough of the other characters.

SB, your entire post is a textbook example of how to respectfully express a negative opinion. There's nothing wrong with your tone, and you've backed up your opinion with evidence. Someone might disagree, but you haven't insulted or demeaned that person. (edited to add: SB's post has been moved the the Archer as Captain Thread)

[Alelou]

Snipped from a review for a story at ff.net I haven't actually read, because it's Trip/OFC:

I love your story, do you have any idea how hard it is to find a story about Trip where he isn't with T'Pol, or if he isn't with her, he's gay.

Heh heh. It must be hard.

So ... what the heck is OFC anyway? OC is Original Character. So what's OFC? Original F-ing Character?

EDIT: Oh, doh. Original Female Character.

[WarpGirl]

Maybe I've looked around som odd places but I've seen those stories before... OFC can olso stand for other female character. For example, Erika Hernandez, Princess, Ah'len, Liana...

[honeybee]

Actually, if you dig very deep into the fandom - Trip/OFC or as I call them Trip/Mary Sue fics were somewhat popular during the first two seasons of the show. They seemed to have died out after Trip hooked up with T'Pol.

On another note, I was just thinking how many weird pairings there are in this fandom. I've seen Archer/T'Pau, Soval/Amanda and in the slash realm quite a few Archer/Shran fics (though I suppose its not that weird given the way the bickered). And I managed to pair off MU Archer and MU Lizzie Tucker - which surprised even me.

I wrote an E2 fic that necessitated Reed/OFC and Archer/OFC - and I had those two hook up with a pair of twins.

[Alelou]

That makes sense. Though I think it's an original character in this story.

I don't think the person commenting was claiming there were NO other stories like that, just that the overwhelming majority are TnT.

Which is a good sign, IMO.

[WarpGirl]

Well duh.

[Alelou]

Poor Trip. Once you go Vulcan, anything else leaves you sulkin'...

(Playing off Rigil's "Once you go Terran, there's no comparin'") (And yes, his tracks better.)