What elements does a TnT story really need?

[Kotik]

Hi folks,

I'm starting to ponder a serious question. What is needed to write a good TnT story? The (unfortunately) most-used element appears to be angst, which to my dismay seems to be a favorite among the women folks around here.

In an ff-comment to a hideously angsty story I read this: "Angst is salt for any good drama" and somewhere within the comment section of a story on TriS someone (again female, IIRC) wrote: I'm of course a sucker for suffering Trip and agonized T'Pol.

I'm neither trying to start a gender-slugging here, nor am I trying to slate any stories, but having just had my one-year anniversary as a fanfic-author, I'm starting to wonder if there is a realistic chance of writing a good story without pushing our favorite couple through the emotional blender, especially if one starts his/her story in the late 4th season time-frame.

I'm asking the experienced writers in here. What would be needed to construct a nice and interesting TnT fic, without T'Pol shutting out and downright abusing Trip or any of that will-they-won't-they malarkey? Is it realistic to write multi-chaptered piece, where TnT are together from the beginning?

Cheers, Kotik.

[WarpGirl]

Kotik the inherent problem with your question is whether you equate "angst" with being put through "an emotional blender" or you equate angst with conflict. IF you write a story without any sort of conflict in it, the odds of writing a good one are practically non-existent. Conflict can take many different forms: internal, external, between indiviuals, or outside forces.

Also a story without any conflict in it, cannot truly engage a reader. Think about it... In life has anyone gone through a day of living without conflict. Even on the very best day of life there is conflict. In order to truly immerse yourself in a fictional world or characters, there has to have a reality based in conflict.

Finally, when two people are in a long-term, or perminent relationship, they're not natural if everything is always perfect. No two individuals are going to get along every second of their lives. So in order to write a good romantic story sometimes those hard times must be shown. Not every single story, but in most multichapter stories yeah...

All in all, no not every story needs to have TnT in relationship trouble. But there is no such thing as a perfect relationship. So trying to write one is a recipy for bad writing.

[Silverbullet]

I guess I am guilty of bad writing. Most of what I have written of TnT they are commited and in love. NO Angst. Only one "NOt Dead" had angst in it. The rest did not have what I call angst.

I am a hopeless romantic so I write that way. Bad? Okay.I am guilty

But I submit that a story of TnT can be written without a lot of Angst. I have read a few. As far as I can see it is easier to write with Angst than without because it may seem boring if everything is nice.

[Alelou]

Speaking as someone who has indulged in a fair amount of angst, I think I probably write it because I like to fix it. I take a relationship that's a mess somehow or other and then I fix it ... eventually. Ta da.
Since the show gave us plenty of grist for things that were a mess, TnT are particularly well-suited for it. Also, though, I just really love to watch people attempt to communicate and love across the differences in sex or culture or whatever. It ain't easy in real life, either. (My non-fanfic novels tend to focus on those things, too.)

If you want to write a compelling TnT fic without any angst, then I think WarpGirl is right -- you need some external conflict. TnT against somebody/something else. Or just tell a damned good general SF or adventure story for the whole crew with strong TnT elements. As long as they are in character and there's enough forward momentum in a suspenseful plot, people will enjoy it.

[Kotik]

Thanx Alelou and WarpGirl, you ladies give me hope. With an Angst threshold below the poverty line, I'd just suck at attempting to write such a thing. So if I get it right, a nice piece where TnT use their bond to overcome a dangerous situation would be equally capable of laying out a nice plot?

[honeybee]

Well, speaking as a female, when I'm not chatting on the phone, doing my nails and talking about my period, there's nothing I love more than sitting down to write angst - especially if it makes boys uncomfortable. After that, it's a facial and then off to the mall!

Oh wait, I wrote a 31 page TnT story in which they never fought, never considered breaking up. But, in order to move that plot along, I had to create some external conflicts as well as individual internal conflicts for both characters. WG is 100% correct, there must be some conflict in order to drive a plot. But how that conflict manifests is the author's choice. Unless its a vignette or a PWP, there must be something that happens in a story.

But, I'm writing a prequel to that story that has some angst in it. Because it takes place at their baby's funeral. Because, I really wanted to explore how grief could bring to people together. But it's the bringing that's the plot. Luckily, I clearly labeled the story angst, so anyone who stumbles upon it and gets angst cooties was warned ahead of time.

The bottom line is - some people enjoy dramatic stories, some people don't. Some people like writing them, some people don't. I don't think it's a gender issue, since plenty of males seem to like my more dramatic stories. But if you don't like angst, then check the label and don't read. That's why the labels are there.

[Aquarius]

I agree with WG. Characters without some kind of problem or challenge to overcome aren't interesting. And there is a lot of conflict inherent in an interspecies coupling. Dismissing this as "angst" doesn't make it "bad writing." If nothing really "happens" in the story, then you don't have opportunities for character development. Interesting characters grow and change and reveal something new as you read.

And "good" is subjective, Kotik. Some people like gritty realism. Some people like ShinyHappyFluffyBunniesThatPoopRainbows. And there are people who like all forms and flavors in between. But to dismiss something as not "good" simply because you don't like it is kind of presumptuous. What's "good" for you isn't "good" for everyone else.

[honeybee]

Seriously, a good writer can write angst or comedy or suspense or any other genre, if they make it a good story, then that's all that matters. And in order to write a good story, you have to write the story you want to write. I don't write angst that often, but when I do it's because I want to resolve some conflict in between the characters or explore something as I saw it on screen.

And even though I tell myself there are things I don't like/approve of - I'm always surprised at how a good writer can change my mind.

[Alelou]

Thanx Alelou and WarpGirl, you ladies give me hope. With an Angst threshold below the poverty line, I'd just suck at attempting to write such a thing. So if I get it right, a nice piece where TnT use their bond to overcome a dangerous situation would be equally capable of laying out a nice plot?

I don't know how a piece coud lay out a plot, but I think you get the general idea.

Suspense, good pacing, characters we recognize, and a satisfying resolution: these are the elements of fanfic success. If you know you have some weaknesses (we all do), throw a good beta or two in there -- and make sure you listen to them with an open mind.

[Kotik]

Thanx for all the input. Just to make sure - I'm not trying to be judgemental. There are good angsty stories - Elessars Part II of "Your Mom 'n me" springs to mind. But I know that I'm sort of unable to write that sort of relationship suspense, mainly because all of my two relationships, that I've ever been in have been catastrophic (understatement, tbh.), so I'm looking for alternative ways to make a story interesting, "despite" a successful relationship between the main characters (mainly I have my story "Words" in mind at that)

[WarpGirl]

Thanx Alelou and WarpGirl, you ladies give me hope. With an Angst threshold below the poverty line, I'd just suck at attempting to write such a thing. So if I get it right, a nice piece where TnT use their bond to overcome a dangerous situation would be equally capable of laying out a nice plot?

I guess I am guilty of bad writing. Most of what I have written of TnT they are commited and in love. NO Angst. Only one "NOt Dead" had angst in it. The rest did not have what I call angst.

I am a hopeless romantic so I write that way. Bad? Okay.I am guilty

But I submit that a story of TnT can be written without a lot of Angst. I have read a few. As far as I can see it is easier to write with Angst than without because it may seem boring if everything is nice.

Kotik and SB you both might want to consider that just because a couple has problems does not mean they are not mean they are not "commited and in love" and to say otherwise is a gross dis-service. We're not talking about two people who have no flaws, no insecurities, and have never hurt anyone. We are talking about two characters with the same imperfections as ordinary people. Cany anyone here say that they have never hurt someone they were commited to and in love with? Jusr because two people are "perfect for each other" does not mean they are perfect people. In sharing a life together, they will inevitably at times hurt each other. That in no way tarnishes their love or commitment.

Also individual tastes are going to come onto play here. But more than that, the author's perceptions play a vital roll in the story they tell. Their preceptions determine their reality, and their reality determines their creative process. It's personal, I know I don't expect everyone to agree with me, or to like what I write... But it is mine, and I'm not going to give that up because somebody else doesn't agree. And I'm not going to ask somebody else to disregard what is theirs, because I don't agree.

[Transwarp]

My personal tolerance for angst boils down to two questions: Is it well written? and Can I believe it?

On reflection, both those may be the SAME question. What's well written is usually believable, and vice-versa. The problem with the show was that it strained my belief that two sentient beings could behave as TnT were portrayed. And since I had grown to care about the two, that angered me. Which provided the impetus to 'fix' it. Which brought me here.

Most of the angst I dislike is because it strains my credulity. I can't believe two adults would act that way. On the other hand, I've read some pretty angsty stuff that I really enjoyed, because it was so well-written the author MADE me believe.

[honeybee]

Kotik, honestly, this is my advice. Don't worry about what is or isn't successful for other people. Write the story you want to write and work hard (maybe as Alelou suggests with a beta to help with structure and technique) and make it as true to what you want the story to be as you can. Then, you can be proud of it - and I guarantee at least some people will like it. You can't please all the people all the time, but if you're true to your own vision and true to the characters, it doesn't matter who likes it or who doesn't.

[aadarshinah]

I think your problem, Kotik, is angst for angst's sake. As others have already said, every relationship has its ups and downs and writing otherwise would be unrealistic, but angst that does nothing to progress the storyline is oftentimes just not worth it.

That being said, I've nothing against angst. Love reading it - when, again, it advances the plot. I've seen it done right a thousand times. Seen it done wrong a thousand more.

[WarpGirl]

Well for me it's always the question of motivation... I need to know WHY? For example, if T'Pol is going to say she's not ready to take the plunge, tell me why! Show me her reasoning, explain the situation she is in. Misplaced did this so beautifully in her latest chapter dealing with Unexpected. Yet for some people they equate it with T'Pol...

If Trip is going to do something Jackassy, show me the reason... Is he tired, hurt, stressed, just an idiot... Hey it happens, even the very best people get bad days. But don't just throw it out there and say aha!