Casualties in Season 3

[Alelou]

Did anyone else find it peculiar that in "Rajin" they got their asses whupped so badly when they were boarded, yet sickbay was empty in the next scene?

Did anyone other than the one Xindi get hurt or die? Are we supposed to assume hours have passed?

And if no one actually did get killed, why the hell not?

Just some questions I'm wrestling with in the missing scene for that ep -- I may end up just skipping it all in the end, but I'm curious what people think.

[aadarshinah]

And if no one actually did get killed, why the hell not?

White hats never get killed, Alelou, unless it serves a dramatic and heart-wrenching purpose.

But, seriously, no. No idea. Maybe people did die and the bodies had already been moved to the morgue... or, for some reason, their injuries weren't severe and they were being treated by MACO medics or something.... Or, even better, most crewmen are really bothered by Phlox's take on medicine and, rather than deal with eels and such, just slap a band-aid on their wounds themselves if they can get away with it.

[Silverbullet]

Because, Alelou, the freaking writers didn't want any. White Hats. Why is it that Rajiin can overcome T'Pol easily but lets Archer take her to the Brig without a fight. Since Rajiin had somehow put the whamy on Archer in his quarters why couldn't she do the same he was alreday primed. No sense to the episode as so many Episodes. go with the White Hats.

Sb

[Kotik]

Did anyone else find it peculiar that in "Rajin" they got their asses whupped so badly when they were boarded, yet sickbay was empty in the next scene?

Did anyone other than the one Xindi get hurt or die? Are we supposed to assume hours have passed?

And if no one actually did get killed, why the hell not?

Just some questions I'm wrestling with in the missing scene for that ep -- I may end up just skipping it all in the end, but I'm curious what people think.

Remember that the Xindi's main objective was to get Rajin and then just get away asap. Only shooting any humans that obstriuct saves time, so the two or three that got hit could either be dead or resting in their quarters after being patched up. The scene in sickbay must have been a considerable amount of time after the attack (hours at least). Phlox would never poke around in an alien corpse, while there were still patients to care for.

[Alelou]

Because, Alelou, the freaking writers didn't want any. White Hats. Why is it that Rajiin can overcome T'Pol easily but lets Archer take her to the Brig without a fight. Since Rajiin had somehow put the whamy on Archer in his quarters why couldn't she do the same he was alreday primed. No sense to the episode as so many Episodes. go with the White Hats.

Archer didn't take her to the brig -- a security team did. And he was never alone with her after that scene.

Kotik's explanation that hours had passed makes more sense. I still find it peculiar that they didn't have any patients, or that if someone did die it wasn't at least mentioned. However, you don't put everything in a teleplay.

I guess I'll have to go do the math from after Azati Prime to figure out if they could have lost any earlier. (I know they lost Fuller in an earlier ep.)

[Kotik]

I guess I'll have to go do the math from after Azati Prime to figure out if they could have lost any earlier. (I know they lost Fuller in an earlier ep.)

They lost Fuller in "Anomaly" and IIRC they lost 17 or 18 in "Azati Prime/Damage". Overall they lost 27 (Archers speech in "Home"), so not all victims were explicitely mentioned, so it is plausible that some could have died in the Reptilian/Insectoid raid during "Rajiin"

[Alelou]

Oh, thank you. You just did the math for me. You're right, that would make sense. (I'm trying to remember if we had any other losses of life on camera, but nothing is coming to mind.)

[aadarshinah]

don't forget Hayes and the random 2 dead in "Zero Hour"

[Kotik]

don't forget Hayes and the random 2 dead in "Zero Hour"

That would make 20 casualties on-screen - 7 to use where needed (sh#t that sounds friggin' cold-blooded )

[aadarshinah]

ooh, and the MACO that dies around "Countdown" or so - when he, Reed, and T'Pol go into the sphere, and Reed says something about 20% crew loss being acceptable, and this makes more than 20%...

So make it 21 onscreen and 6 "as needed" deaths.

[Silverbullet]

That 20 percent junk came from Eisenhower when he was asked about the casualty rate in the Normady Invasion "20 percent is accepctatble." good for him since he didn't have a chance in Hell of being in that 20 percernt. Those guy who were going to be probably weren't too happy about his casualness.

[Kotik]

That 20 percent junk came from Eisenhower when he was asked about the casualty rate in the Normady Invasion "20 percent is accepctatble." good for him since he didn't have a chance in Hell of being in that 20 percernt. Those guy who were going to be probably weren't too happy about his casualness.

Sure not the worst of cynicism. In comunist times, the russian and east german armies calculated a 2% loss of personell in each training maneuver. And they usually met that goal

[Transwarp]

That 20 percent junk came from Eisenhower when he was asked about the casualty rate in the Normady Invasion "20 percent is accepctatble." good for him since he didn't have a chance in Hell of being in that 20 percernt. Those guy who were going to be probably weren't too happy about his casualness.

Silverbullet, it's a good story, but I doubt Eisenhower ever said anything remotely similar to that. Can you cite any sources to back this up?

[aadarshinah]

And, regardless, Starfleet's policy, not Eisinhower's:

TRAVIS: It was that last run through the cloaking barrier. The coil assembly's been damaged.
T'POL: Reduce speed. Hold at half impulse. (Reed drops a locker lid on his finger) Lieutenant?
REED: I'm all right. I'm fine. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe we're getting a bit too comfortable with losing people. Twenty three men and women. On any given mission the limits of acceptable casualties is twenty percent. So says traditional military doctrine. Well, we've crossed that margin.
T'POL: There's a Vulcan axiom. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Corporal Hawkins understood that.
REED: That doesn't make his death any more acceptable.
T'POL: No, but it makes it honourable.

and it was "The Council", not "Countdown". Sorry about that.

[WarpGirl]

Well from a production standpoint, ST isn't like 24... Therefore the Xindi were not going to have a bloodbath every week. But to tell the truth I think that the fact that there were only 88 people to begin with and it was all so dangerous I'm surprized the casulties weren't much higher.