TnT and public contact

[pdsldl]

That may be true ASSO but they do not give up that which makes them who they are. Their core beliefs. If they do to me that not a healthy relationship. They can change/compromise but it would still be mostly with their private behavior with one another. I really can't see T'Pol or any Vulcan being what they consider intimate with a mate in public.

[honeybee]

I thought about the whole PDA thing for my story "A Kiss at Midnight" - and in that story I had T'Pol willing to compromise her "no PDA" rule up to a point in order to make Trip happy, but only up to a point. The joke of the story was that Trip wasn't going to make or expect her to violate her principles anyway.

There's two separate issues. The professional issue is one thing. I think neither of them would get affectionate on duty or in professional spaces on the ship unless circumstances were extreme.

Then, what would Vulcans feel about public contact? To my mind, they would not be comfortable with much, although I could see them touching hands or fingers or walking arm in arm during non professional times. I could also see T'Pol pushing this a little further to make Trip happy - the kiss in Bound was not in front of everyone, but it was in a public space - but I also think he would accept that she would view things a little differently. It would be a meet in the middle situation as far as I'm concerned.

[Asso]

I don't know, pdsldl. I don't deny the worth of your feelings and of your perceptions; your ideas are very realistic, or, rather, plausible.
On the other hand, I think the core of Trip and T'Pol's essence wouldn't be scratched by a waltz shared in public, and, after all, when we think of a Trip who learns meditation, don't we run the risk - more or less consciously - of nicking his own core?

A propos, what do you think of a Soval who leads T'Pol to dance a waltz? After all is the Old Wise Vulcan Ambassador: it would be his duty opening the dances at Trip and T'Pol's marriage.

[Silverbullet]

I can remember T-Pol and Trip touching in Episodes but not holding hands.

I remember Archer twice helping T'Pol in and out of a Shuttle pad and up a ladder by her hands and once in "Damage" when her hands were shaking he reached out and took them in his hands asking her if something was wrong.

But holding hands as a sign of affection, Nope

[crystalswolf]

When they were recovering from the scaly skin causing distortion and T'Pol took more time to heal than the rest. I think I remember Trip holding her hand to examine the scales and she only withdrew it when he joked about Vulcans not being as tough as he thought or something like that. Don't have the time to look it up right now though.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Yet one of the Startrek movies showed Spock singing "row the boat" with Bones and Kirk...

Actually he didn't. He played his Vulcan harp while Jim and Bones sang. Link

[Kotik]

When they were recovering from the scaly skin causing distortion and T'Pol took more time to heal than the rest. I think I remember Trip holding her hand to examine the scales and she only withdrew it when he joked about Vulcans not being as tough as he thought or something like that. Don't have the time to look it up right now though.

It's right. He took her hand and she made no move to protest. That was the 'age revealing scene'. At that point she was already quite content to allow casual contact. One has to note however that they were alone in the sit-room and therefore out of public view.

[pdsldl]

PDA to me is in view of the actual people not just in a public area that in only occupied by TnT. The kiss and his taking her hand were done when no one else was around. And if someone had shown up they both would have broken contact immediately.

And ASSO it took T'Pol years to tell Trip her age because it's considered intimate and dancing is far more intimate than a personal fact like that is. Some form of dance that didn't involve touching or acting while on a planet or station and undercover on a mission she maybe would dance but at a social function/wedding just seems like a lot to ask of her. I don't even think Trip would ask and if it came up I see him telling her he doesn't expect her to. Trip knows this is a big thing in her culture and I just can't see him allowing her to be put in a situation where she had to do something she would consider private. It's romantic and I'm all for romance but realistic for a Vulcan I just don't think so.

[Asso]

pdsldl, maybe I am a too playfull man, but how much serious your Trip is! Don't you think a little of his cheerfulness may pass to T'Pol through the Bond?
Maybe this would take years, okay, but in the end...

[pdsldl]

Perhaps. Humans mellow with age and to some degree care less what others think. But all the Vulcans we saw who were older were crotchety -- some to the point of being almost seeming angry. Some small concessions yes, full on contact such as dancing no. I just don't see her giving up so deeply held a belief or custom. And not wanting to change someone from the person you fell in love with doesn't mean you're too serious or not playful. From what we saw in private she was most likely very different with Trip.

[Aquarius]

I don't recall the story in question, so my thoughts will be in general:

I don't think there would be PDA in situations where it would be considered unprofessional. I won't go so far as to say "spaces" as was suggested earlier, because we see quite clearly that T'Pol risks a kiss in the corridor in "Bound." Yeah, the situation was a little extreme, she felt she was about to lose Trip for good. But still, if the moment is right...just sayin'.

Otherwise, any "unnecessary" touching would be out of the question. Yes, she's taken an offered hand when being helped up, etc. But that's not quite the same thing as holding hands with your sweetie in public when you're supposed to be working.

Off-duty in social situations? T'Pol may be inclined to relax the "rules" a little bit. Hand-holding isn't that much of a stretch from the Vulcan two-fingered dealio...I can see it happening, say, after the lights went down on movie night or something like that. But remember, T'Pol is still going to be a private person. Given time, she may eventually relax into holding hands even when the lights are on and people can see, but at first, and I think she would also try to consider the fact that her mate is not Vulcan and would want to please him...but I think the PDA thing is going to be uneasy at first, and eventually they'll reach a compromise as well as a tacit set of rules as to what's acceptable and when.

As far as dinner in the Captain's mess goes...well, it may be after their shifts, but if the uniforms are on, it's still dinner with the boss, no matter what the conversation, etc. If everyone is in civvies, then it's a social thing, and the rules can be relaxed.

[honeybee]

I've always had T'Pol adjusting slightly to human customs, but only up to a point. In Family Secrets, Trip specifically tells his family no wedding because while she would be fine with the ceremony, many of the reception traditions would not be okay with her. His parents still throw them a party, which she is able to attend since they are respectful of her customs.

However, I do wonder how far she would go if pushed. In "A Kiss at Midnight", she recognizes PDA as a way for a mates to publicly claim each other, and I wondered if she were jealous of another female's attention to Trip if she would set aside her own mores to "claim" him. Because I've always thought that the bond would make mates pretty possessive of one another. It would be an amusing scenario. But another theme that I dealt with in that story was the fact that while humans sometimes engage in PDA - they don't need to. Meanwhile, Vulcans not only don't need to because of the bond, the idea of public affection makes them uncomfortable. Trip recognizes this and would never push her to do anything she found uncomfortable. T'Pol misunderstands the occasional human desire for PDA with a need in the story.

Here's the story for anyone who hasn't read it.

[Silverbullet]

Honeybee, T'Pol seemed to have pushed aside any reservations when she was threatened by Cole and Seduced Trip in "Harbinger" and when she thought she would lose him again in Bound she Kissed him in the hall heedless of anyone coming along to see that. Threat to her might allow her to forget her distate for certain things to protect what she feels is hers.

[Aquarius]

First, T'Pol didn't openly threaten Cole. At that point, I don't think T'Pol had even made up her mind about acting on her feelings for Trip.

Second, the seduction happened behind closed doors, and therefore was still private.

Third, she did kiss Trip in a public corridor--risky, to be sure, but no one was around, and it was an extenuating circumstance.

So I kind of feel like using that line of reasoning to say that T'Pol would completely forget her "distaste" for things is like adding one and one and one and getting five.

[honeybee]

Yeah, I think it is telling that she's never affectionate with him in front of other people. But it seems that even kissing him in a public space is a stretch for her in Bound. One that he seems to understand. She's already pushing it, there.

I was thinking that if she ever did be affectionate with him in front of other people, it wouldn't go that well. She might try and claim him that way as a science project (that's kind of what I had in my head) - but it would end up being awkward and uncomfortable for her. He might resist because it was so out of character and he doesn't want her to to feel uncomfortable.

But I think she is willing to push her limits in the public space area, and he appreciates that.