TnT and public contact

[Kotik]

So I kind of feel like using that line of reasoning to say that T'Pol would completely forget her "distaste" for things is like adding one and one and one and getting five.

I think it comes all back to logical reasoning. She's in a relationship with a human, so she'll have to extend a human gesture now and then. I think that in a committed relationship, she would allow holding hands. Everything beyond that is a stretch. The Kiss in "Bound" was a panic reaction as Trip sort of implied to return to Columbia. I don't think she would do that again if they were together. In this case she would allow such gestures only in the privacy of their cabin.

[Asso]

First, T'Pol didn't openly threaten Cole. At that point, I don't think T'Pol had even made up her mind about acting on her feelings for Trip.

Second, the seduction happened behind closed doors, and therefore was still private.

Third, she did kiss Trip in a public corridor--risky, to be sure, but no one was around, and it was an extenuating circumstance.

So I kind of feel like using that line of reasoning to say that T'Pol would completely forget her "distaste" for things is like adding one and one and one and getting five.

To demonstrate once more that never you and I will be in agreement:
First; it was unconscious? Perhaps, but it was done, and that is a well clear characteristic of T'Pol.
Second; not openly, sure, but once again it was done: another well clear characteristic of T'Pol, not perfectly Vulcan, if I must listen to your reasoning. From that to other things, it is not needed a very long step.
Third; it was a corridor: T'Pol didn't seem to pay much attention if they were alone or not. It was instinctual and public.

I am displeased to say this, but - as it happened in the past and as always it will happen, each of us seeks what is more useful to demonstrate his own perceptions, and, as always it happened and always it will happen, no one will change his mind.

[Transwarp]

I am displeased to say this, but - as it happened in the past and as always it will happen, each of us seeks what is more useful to demonstrate his own perceptions, and, as always it happened and always it will happen, no one will change his mind.

Yes, mind-changing is a rare, infrequent event, but only to be expected given the amorphous and bendable nature of canon. We can each shape it to our own liking, so why not?

Be not displeased, my friend. Some will accept your vision and some will not. Of those that do not accept your vision, some will enjoy your work and some will not. It is simply the way of things.

I rather enjoy the give-and-take and fresh perspectives of these forums. Even if I'm right and everyone else is wrong...

[Asso]

I rather enjoy the give-and-take and fresh perspectives of these forums. Even if I'm right and everyone else is wrong...

I agree. Ah... that I'm right and everyone else is wrong... it is referred to me, doesn't it?

[Transwarp]

I had no one in particular in mind. It's just a humorous way of recognizing that I myself have been known to obstinately defend my positions beyond the point of what's reasonable (because I'm RIGHT, dammit!).

If you are referring to your disagreement with the actions of my Trip and T'Pol in 'Convicted', then rest easy. That's not an issue. I have my vision, you have yours, and there's plenty of room here for both of them.

[Asso]

The way you described Trip and T'Pol was absolutely far from my mind (even if personally I feel those peculiar Trip and T'Pol more OOC there than in some other stories).
I was affirming that the one who is right, it is me, damnit twice!

[Asso]

Erased: double post.

[Transwarp]

I was a soccer ref back in Dallas. I would tell the coaches and irate parents who argued my calls, "I'm sure your right."
(But I wouldn't change the call.)

Asso, I'm sure you're right!

[Asso]

As am I about you, Transwarp!

[pdsldl]

With discussions like this sometimes it has to be good enough that others will listen and debate the point with you without shutting you down or insulting anyone's beliefs or intelligence. Who knows someday put what you've said with something someone said and who knows....

That T'Pol kissed Trip in a corridor was a desperate act on her part, No thought went into it. No I'm a Vulcan I can't do this here. All she wanted was for him to stay and she didn't have time to think or plan so she did what came to mind because he needed convincing in the way that she thought he would hear her.

[Asso]

Did I give such sort of impression? I am displeased, if I sounded so to you, pdsldl.
Surely it wasn't my intention.
Anyway, I learned long ago that when heart and soul perceptions are involved, rarely people change their mind.
It's inevitable (and not wrong) that we see in each thing what we want to see.

[pdsldl]

Asso, I didn't think you were upset or being displeased. Why would I? And yes most of us have very definite beliefs that our own lives have taught us and those heart and soul perceptions should be our deepest held beliefs and shouldn't be changeable with the way the wind is currently blowing but they are changeable with the right amount of time or the right set of circumstances or sometimes the right person(s) to show us what we didn't know before.

[Aquarius]

First, T'Pol didn't openly threaten Cole. At that point, I don't think T'Pol had even made up her mind about acting on her feelings for Trip.

Second, the seduction happened behind closed doors, and therefore was still private.

Third, she did kiss Trip in a public corridor--risky, to be sure, but no one was around, and it was an extenuating circumstance.

So I kind of feel like using that line of reasoning to say that T'Pol would completely forget her "distaste" for things is like adding one and one and one and getting five.

To demonstrate once more that never you and I will be in agreement:
First; it was unconscious? Perhaps, but it was done, and that is a well clear characteristic of T'Pol.
Second; not openly, sure, but once again it was done: another well clear characteristic of T'Pol, not perfectly Vulcan, if I must listen to your reasoning. From that to other things, it is not needed a very long step.
Third; it was a corridor: T'Pol didn't seem to pay much attention if they were alone or not. It was instinctual and public.

I am displeased to say this, but - as it happened in the past and as always it will happen, each of us seeks what is more useful to demonstrate his own perceptions, and, as always it happened and always it will happen, no one will change his mind.

We agree on one thing: that we'll never agree.

I don't want to get into an item-by-item debate, because frankly when it comes to opinions as diametrically opposed as ours, it's pointless and it becomes tiresome for the other people following the thread to read.

I do, however, want to point out that I think you're overlooking something pretty obvious in your counter-argument to the third point: whether or not T'Pol seemed to pay attention to whether or not she and Trip were alone in the corridor, it has been canonically established that her sense of hearing and sense of smell is superior to a human's. She'd be able to determine pretty quickly if anyone was in close proximity without being obvious about looking around.

Furthermore, as pointed out by myself and others, this was a special circumstance, and while she may have been less concerned about her privacy and dignity in this particular instance, it's not a free pass for assuming that she would adopt this as regular behavior.

[Silverbullet]

Aqaurius, I did not say that T'Pol threatened Cole, SHE felt threatened by Cole. I have thought for some time that T'Pol may have meditated before the NP session and decided on the action she took as the only option available to her at the time. Get his attention and stake her claim in no uncertain terms.

That she seems to have regreted it in the morning is something else. I still believe it was OOC for her as Vulcan but was done out of desperation because of a perceived threat by Cole to win Trip. It seems that by then her atitude was that Trip was hers. she may have even been thinking of his as a potential partner.

[Aquarius]

Sorry 'bout that, SB. I missed "by" when I read through that before. I thought you'd been referring to the implied threat when she cautioned Cole against future neuropressure and that "ouch" moment while T'Pol was straightening her out.

In terms of public contact, though, it should be remembered that most of what T'Pol says and does in regards to Trip on a personal level is behind closed doors. Vulcans engage in very little PDA in their society, though I'm sure that there are varying degrees between individual couples--just as here you have some couples that you'd never figure are together because they barely acknowledge each other, and others you want to throw money at and tell them to take it to a hotel because their behavior is more affectionate than what seems "decent" in public. Still, Vulcans are comparatively more reserved than we are. It's no wonder that Cole smacking Trip's butt sent her into a tailspin. Not only was it more than what she's accustomed to seeing in mixed company, but the implied possession got to her on a personal level. To witness it there in front of everyone must've freaked her out on more levels than most of us can imagine.