Vulcan Modesty

[Silverbullet]

WG, to give you and idea. I saw a skit in Germany where a male and female were on a nude beach running around buck Naked. They got dressed, left the beach and were waiting for a Bus. The male playfully leaned over raised her skit a bit and looked under it. she turned and Belted him hard. He said why did you do that? "because" she said. Because why? a few minutes ago we were on a nude beach where I could see all of you. "That is different" she said this is in public. "But rher is no one arund to see." It is still in public." Go figure. I was watching this with a female friend and she understood it perfrectly and agreed with the female in the skit. Circumstances.

T'Pol could have been so modest that she would not allow Trip to see her naked but could have sex with him in the dark. I know frmm experience that it does happen.

[Kotik]

The approach to nudity/modesty is very different between cultures on Earth. Even Germany is very divided on the issue. East Germans have generally very few inhibitions. In comunist times we had a thing called Freikörperkultur (FKK). The literal translation is "free(d) body culture" or as the english expression would be "nudism". The most prestigious camping site in east Germany was mainly reserved for nudists. You could go shopping or watching a movie stark naked - well and we usually did. We used to go there every year and for 2 weeks I didn't wear any clothes (not a sight I would impress on people, now that I'm 36 and have a bit of a beer gut )

Most west Germans are way more reserved than that and despite the fact that Prerow (aforementioned prestigious camping site) is now open to all Europeans, it is still mainly frequented by east Germans.

It's safe to assume that such differences might exist among Vulcans as well.

[aadarshinah]

Given the Vulcan heat, though, I imagine there are very few nudist retreats...

[Enerdhil]

In Amok Time, T'Pring says to Spock, at the end of the Kal'ih'fee:
" But if you did not free me, it would be the same. For you would be gone, and I would have your name and your property, and Stonn would still be there."

I think you can get around this because Spock and T'Pring were only bethrothed, not mated yet, and the monogamy gland hadn't a chance to kick in yet.

She was talking about what would happen after the bonding with Spock, that is, after that so mentioned gland (I haven't seen VOY, so I know nothing about).

[Kotik]

Given the Vulcan heat, though, I imagine there are very few nudist retreats...

Would make some optimal conditions though. It's not like you actually need clothing with two suns burning down on you You'd have to come up with some astronomical figures for the sunscreen, though

[aadarshinah]

Given the Vulcan heat, though, I imagine there are very few nudist retreats...

Would make some optimal conditions though. It's not like you actually need clothing with two suns burning down on you You'd have to come up with some astronomical figures for the sunscreen, though

Even Vulcans would get heat stroke, eventually. Unless they're underground nudist retreats... Should be nice and comfortable in some of Vulcan's caverns - the ones away from all the lava, that is. Given Vulcan's heat, most of their water supply has to be underground... meaning, if you had the right conditions, I can see some subterranian "beaches". Now thatwould be optimal. And no SPF Mock 5 needed.

She was talking about what would happen after the bonding with Spock, that is...

Maybe the bond already kicked in between T'Pring and Stonn, so, despite whatever pon farr related intimacies she and Spock may have had, she'd still be emotionally/psychically/ect connected to Stonn. It must be the sleep deprivation, but I'm seeing a parallel in this situation to Moulin Rouge, with Satine as T'Pring, Christian as Stonn, and The Duke as Spock...

[Silverbullet]

Kotik, ever heard of Sylt? Or the North Sea Beaches? West Germans same as the East. Whole families go to Sylt every year. Have to book a hotel a year or so in advance. Many owned homes on sylt and used them in the Summer. I was on Sylt a few times. One could walk along the bach and be in a Swim suit only part, optional Swim suit or Nude and all Nude beach as one walked along. Very Popular. Sylt was a large Island off the coast of Gemany and Denmark. There were Nude beaches in Denmark and Sweden too. FKK was the term used in West Germany when I was there. Yes, I did go on to the Nude beaches. Nice to find a hollow in the sand out of the wind and let the sun bake one all over. Volley Ball was a favorite game there.

[panyasan]

I still wonder about T'Pol's sense of modesty as opposed to the general Vulcan population. In the episode she is high on TD from being on that ship and being covered with TD. She is a bit of a rebel and her emtions are closer to the surface.Also she has been living with Humans so some of thier attitudes may have rubbed off.

In tha episode T'Pol is naked under the sheet because her clothes were sturated with TD. The clothes had to be removed and T'Pol bathed. Doubt if a sponge Bath would have been good enough. Remeber Trip in the episode "the Xindi" said he haed showered five times and still was not certain he had removed all of t he TD he had picked up in the mine. T'Pol either shhowered herself or was unable to stop Phlox and cutler from putting her into a shower and bathing her. She may have been aware that it had been done. A nyway, when she sat up it was revealed that she was naked to her waist by the shot of her back. She didn't seem to be upset that she had been seen by Phlox, nude. T'Pol ight not be average Vulcan in her attitudes toward nudity.

I am confused here. You question T'Pols modesty by pointing out that she was undressed during a medical emergency. I consider myself a modest person and nobody has seen me in my birthday suit except my husband. But a lot of doctors have seen certain parts of me during my pregnancies and labour. That was awkward sometimes, but a medical emergency: the life of my child depended on it. So like T'Pol, I wasn't upset what the medical staff would have seen of me, because again it was a medical emergency.

[Kotik]

I am confused here. You question T'Pols modesty by pointing out that she was undressed during a medical emergency. I consider myself a modest person and nobody has seen me in my birthday suit except my husband. But a lot of doctors have seen certain parts of me during my pregnancies and labour. That was awkward sometimes, but a medical emergency: the life of my child depended on it. So like T'Pol, I wasn't upset what the medical staff would have seen of me, because again it was a medical emergency.

Exactly my sentiments. A Vulcan has exactly two reasons to be completely or partially nude. The first is some action involving their mate, which somewhat requires the absence of clothing and the second is an encounter with a healer. While the first options surely does not involve any inhibitions, the second may, but Vulcan logic would overrule any discomfort, since in that case the removal of clothing is needed to get the procedure done. That, however, does not mean that a Vulcan wouldn't be troubled by baring him/herself in front of a healer, even if logic says that it is required.

[Aquarius]

In regards to the Vulcan nudist retreat idea...I can't help thinking that since Vulcan is a desert world, it's population may be rather attached to its clothing...protection from sun damage is a beautiful thing, and so is keeping sand out of some pretty awkward places...

[Kotik]

In regards to the Vulcan nudist retreat idea...I can't help thinking that since Vulcan is a desert world, it's population may be rather attached to its clothing...protection from sun damage is a beautiful thing, and so is keeping sand out of some pretty awkward places...

Exactly this attachment to their clothing leads me to believe that they would experience quite a bit of discomfort without them, even if they are not exposed to the sun or sand.

[Aquarius]

While Vulcans may be modest, they are also logical and practical. To me, this doesn't mean that they'd necessarily be showing their goodies at the drop of a dime. What it does mean to me is that in situations where nudity just comes with the territory, their adherence to logic and emotional control would make them bite the bullet and get it done, pushing aside any discomfort, like when seeing one's doctor. Other situations may include, say, shower facilities, for those in the military or something--it isn't to say that one would be comfortable or immodest in showering in front of someone else, it's more of an attitude of worry about yourself instead of what other people are doing, don't look at them and they won't look at you, shower and dry off quickly and efficiently, and don't dilly-dally getting those clothes back on. Being fitted for a garment may be another situation. Being naked in front of another person is probably a big deal--albeit to varying degrees depending on the individual--but they'd certainly act like it isn't, no matter what.

[honeybee]

I think if the situation warrants it - a doctor, a clothing fitting, diving into water to retrieve something and not having a swimsuit or dry clothes - a Vulcan would do the logical thing and get naked, trusting his or her fellow Vulcans to deal with it. However, wearing clothing to protect the body is logical AND part of tradition, and Vulcans are also traditional.

As far as nudity being sexual, it would obviously depend on the situation, since relatively few naked situations are at all sexual. But assuming it is one of those rare cases and since Vulcans suppress their desires, as opposed to not having them, they probably wouldn't tempt fate or appreciate someone tempting them. So, I think they'd avoid nudity unless necessary.

[Silverbullet]

Sun and Sand. the citizens of Saudi Arabia, especiallly the bedouins (sp) wear heavey robes and a head dress. Part of that is modesty and part common sense. A Sandstorm can scrub the hide of a person if the person is not covered well by a heavy robe. This may be why vulcans wear Robes. but as the Saudis they might adopt different dress when of vulcan.

[WarpGirl]

pdsldl Bottom line the Vulcan Reproductive Gland does control all of the parts of Vulcan sexuality. Now that would include bonding and monogomy because when Pon Farr hits a Vulcan is driven to find his or her bonded mate, whether they are married or betrothed. Case in point, Spock wanted T'Pring all the way up to "killing" Kirk only after his Plak Tau was broken could he reject her. Now T'Pring willingly had a complete bond with Stonn for a long time behind Spock's back, and its possible that because Spock is half human the bond wasn't strong enough to hook her. Either way he was still monogomous.

Granted a Vulcan in Pon Farr who cannot reach their mate will eventually have to mate with somebody else but in cases where a completed bond is an issue (like Tuvok) they will try to wait until they are past the point of no return. Even if its using a holo of their own mate.

Vorik was an exception for 2 reasons... A. He was only engaged, and logically concluded that his Fiancee had made other arrangements. B. He mind-linked with Torres, she was his only option after that. Until she beat the crap out of him of course...

These things must have a physical cause, because there are things at work that have nothing to do with cultural mories. Hence why its reasonable to conclude that the Vulcan Reproductive Gland plays the roll in controling all of it. Nothing would make any sense if it didn't.

Now Vulcan Modesty... I don't think Vulcans would be nudists. The enviornment is all wrong for it. Nor do I think they would hit the nude beaches on Risa (come on they probably have them) I think a Vulcan would have to have a practical logical reason to be naked. Like attending a Betazoid wedding, seriously I could see it happening. But in a circumstance like a Betazoid wedding, I don't see many that Vulcans would be uncomfortable. It is perfectly Logical to comply to the culture in that situation. And I don't think Vulcans are vain, even if they do appreciate beauty, I don't think they care if they are considered sexually attractive to anyone but their mates. So there would be no reason to be self-conscious.

Also I can't see any Vulcan needing to cover up while having intercourse with their mates. Why? Physical attraction is far deeper with a bond than with us finicky humans.