This one line...

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Re: This one line...

Postby Elessar » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:54 am

Every episode was also written by a different writer -- it's basically like one big round robin, the only difference being they get paid for it. That's why you had such a wide gradient between something like "A Night in Sickbay" written by ...Mike Sussman, I think? Also wrote "Twilight" ? Probably an AinTer; and someone like Manny Coto. Showrunner or not, everybody writes their own episode.

When this whole thing came about at TrekBBS -- the leak from Quills about the finale and the incredible uprising about it -- there was a telephone calling campaign to Paramount Studios in which we complained about it and I actually took part and called. We weren't out to harass anyone, but we had a list of questions we asked the telephone receptionist. I asked something about whether Manny Coto had had any creative input on the finale or if Braga wrote it all and I remember her telling me that in situations like this where one writer in particular gets an episode to write, it's like a matter of professional respect that the other writers don't interfere or insert themselves. In other words, if Mike Sussman is writing it, Mike Sussman gets to say what goes in it; if Brannon Braga gets to write it, Brannon Braga gets to decide what goes in it. Another one of the reasons they seemed to go back and forth, it's basically like a power struggle in the writers' room. Kind of a drag when you want to analyze the character reasons, but, it's kind of the big picture, as Alelou said.
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Re: This one line...

Postby Alelou » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:12 am

Things would have shifted a great deal from the days of Jeri Taylor if it was really completely up to the individual writer how to handle a major ongoing B plot like Trip and T'Pol.

She described the process of breaking each story down from the treatment (which is a much shorter synopsis) -- as a communal effort. All the writers would get in a room, and they'd break each of the scenes out, and discuss the motivations and arcs for each character in every scene. Only then would that writer go off and write the script.

At the time I wasn't sure if she was feeling me out about whether I wanted to come do that with them on the story idea I'd sold them or not, but it was academic since I couldn't afford to leave my job or my kid long enough to do it. (Also, frankly, it sounded kind of horrifying. It's not the way I normally write, that's for sure.)

BnB might have changed the process, I suppose. Maybe they hated that way of doing things too...

Meanwhile JT suggested their method was much more respectful than the one at the X-Files, where Chris Carter would simply rewrite every script he got from his writers. It would still have their names on it, but it was really his.
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Re: This one line...

Postby honeybee » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:34 am

If it was you Elessar describes - that that would explain the schizophrenic qualities of the writing on the whole show. Mike Sussman was an A/T booster from early on - and Manny Coto and others were firmly in the TnT camp - (Manny Coto wrote Similitude, after all). What they needed was a strong script supervisor to make sure that the character threads - including B stories like TnT - were consistent. I've heard before that Jeri Taylor was a very missed force on Enterprise and that most of the old timers felt things would be very different if she had still been around.

It didn't need to be like a Chris Carter or Joss Whedon show - where the showrunner rewrote everything - but there would have been a benefit in making sure characterizations and motivations were the consistent from show to show.

Although, ENT isn't the only show guilty of this. A friend of mine and I were recently watching a late episode of TNG - the one where Ro joins the Maquis - and early in the episode Picard is suspecting she's got loyalty issues - so he says something really sexually degrading to her. And that's pretty OOC for Picard if you ask me. It really made me wince. But then again, soon enough Picard turned into psycho! Picard in the movies so the character was moving in that direction.
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Re: This one line...

Postby Kevin Thomas Riley » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:05 pm

Elessar wrote: I remember her telling me that in situations like this where one writer in particular gets an episode to write, it's like a matter of professional respect that the other writers don't interfere or insert themselves. In other words, if Mike Sussman is writing it, Mike Sussman gets to say what goes in it; if Brannon Braga gets to write it, Brannon Braga gets to decide what goes in it. Another one of the reasons they seemed to go back and forth, it's basically like a power struggle in the writers' room.

With this in mind, is it really any wonder that J. Michael Straczynski wrote the most of the Babylon 5 episodes himself.
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Re: This one line...

Postby Aikiweezie » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:41 pm

Not knowing which direction one's character was going to be going episode to episode must have been maddening for the actors. They spend a lot of time trying to develop their characters and try to be consistent with them.

I do remember several episodes of TNG where someone would seem really "off." I guess that's why.

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Re: This one line...

Postby Silverbullet » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:28 pm

For sure what ws needed was a continuity board and a continuing story board. Also a character board for ea chcharacter. That could be referrenced to make sure the story and characters stayed on course. If it was hard for the Actors it was also hard for the Fans. Harbinger was a classic example of that. Night, seduction, morning, get lost. Made no sense at all and was frustrating for the fans (this one at least)

someone should have ben in charge. One who kept things going in one direction. It seemed that too many people were pullining different directions.

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Re: This one line...

Postby Aikiweezie » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:32 pm

Silverbullet wrote:
someone should have ben in charge. One who kept things going in one direction. It seemed that too many people were pullining different directions.

IMHO


They SHOULD but I'm not sure they do. I think shows have what they call a "bible" where the basic information about the characters is set in stone. I have no idea if things like the planned direction for the characters is included in that, though.

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Re: This one line...

Postby Alelou » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:56 pm

I'm willing to bet Trip and T'Pol's general arc in Season 3 was planned. Adjustments would be made and individual writers would bring their own tendencies to whatever was being done, and network or studio suits might also get involved and screw up that planning to some degree, but that sort of thing doesn't happen by accident in a television series. Most especially, it doesn't happen by accident during sweeps.
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Re: This one line...

Postby Thot » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:53 pm

1. Rigil's 'They make too much angst in relationships on television' theory has some merit.

2. That the characters doesn't seem too consistent through the 4th season because of different writers, seems to fit.
I can easily envision how one writer said: "I need Trip on Columbia to make the climbing stunt from one ship to another." => Okay, let's use angst as motivation for him to be on Columbia.
The next one: "T'Pol gets problems with her culture/tradition, but we don't want her to be completly outcasted from Vulcan" => Well then let's use an enforced marriage
Another one: "Kir'Shara turns Vulcan upside down" => Then it has to have an impact on T'Pol
and so on

And later on as a viewer you realize how this goes far too extrem into one direction. :wtf:

3. Concerning the Mike Sussman is a A/T shipper theory: Sussman wrote E²! Completly on his own! That balanced Twilight quite out :)
So if you want to make out two corners in this area, than you have Manny Coto on the one end and Berman/Braga on the other, since the latter two always wrote T/T based on merely physical attraction => useful for eyecandy but nothing intellectual. :upchuck: :duh: :banghead:

Just look up, who made the stories for the A/T leaning episodes (Broken Bow, Shadows Of P'Jem, Fusion, A Night In Sickbay, The Seventh, Stigma, *the_abomination*) + Trip is a cabale engineer, but aside from that leans to a naive "manwhore" (Unexpected, Oasis, TDTN, The Seventh, Precious Cargo, Cogenitor)

I think that's the root of the problem, although I don't like to make Berman and Braga out as problems, because they often got bashed too extrem from some sides - but in this case it's quite obvious.


4. Concerning the "I'm sick and tired..." line:
I agreed that you don't have to take this too literally, but far more as an expression for Trip being still suspicious about the situation, this bond is foremost unknown to him and both of them aren't known for their good relationship communication. So it isn't very reasonable or adult behavior from them and sometimes you get the feeling once in a while to grap them and beat some sense into their skulls. But that doesn't make their way of acting out of character.
For example WE know that T'Pol didn't hurt Trip deliberately and WE know that Trip isn't somebody how will just loss his interest for T'Pol and WE know that they are destined to be together. But it is quite something different, if they know it all the way down the road. :kiss:
In addition the most nasty thing about feelings is that they sometimes stay, although it doesn't make any sense. :raspberry:

Such equilibrium in a relationship must establish itself out of a process and not out one central event like 'realizing/admitting their former stupid behavior'. Perhaps that's my too cautious approach, but that's how I see it. ;)
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