Movie/TV cliches

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, they were off duty. He was in her quarters for the NP session. He started it out by saying "You are quiet tonight" and it went on from there to exchanging accusations of being jealous and being able to read one another. She plants a pasionate Kiss on hm, drops her robe, she is naked underneath the Robe she then plants another passionate Kiss on him. Sure they were in a hunt fothe Xindi but at the time they had come upon an anomoly and found a small ship in it. Took the ship aboard, found an Alien which ws taken tosickbay and was being cared for by Phlox. They wren't expecting any alerts. Malcom had been workng out and things were peaceful. Trip and T-Pol hop in bed make Love. They had no reason to belive they would be called out. It was because the alien woke up attacked Phlox and was raising havoc on the ship. Completely unexpected. Had the alien remained in sickbay then Trip and T-Pol probably woud have spent the night making Love. Maybe not but I would bet that way.

they wren't in a war Zone or a combat Zone. They wren't constantly on alert.

Doubt if T-Pol would have seduced Trip if that was the case she would be ready to be called to her station at any moment if the ship was on alert. She was off duty and so was Trip.

The aliens attack was unexpected and the call of a Tacticle Alert all Senior Officers to their station was totally unexpected.

As far as the Mess hall scene goes I don't understand that thing at all. How T-Pol could do such a 180 degrree turn from the Seduction of the night before to telling Trip that ithad just been an Exploration is beyond me. How Trip could take it so calmy is also beyond me. I woould think he might have been just a tad Pissed.

[WarpGirl]

You're joking right? The Entire Expanse was a combat zone... Are you kidding me?

[pdsldl]

The expanse was tough and there were constant threats and emergencies but it wasn't constant and the crew did have down time. The writers/producers wanted to stretch things out with TnT so they never let them really talk about much. It's just one more example of folks who are not confident in their own abilities to write a realistic romance between main characters. Most TV writers must have really sad relationships with their significant others because they sure can't seem to lack the creativity to write romance even with the whole universe at their disposal to keep things interesting. Instead they throw up roadblocks to prevent them from becoming a couple.

[WarpGirl]

The expanse was tough and there were constant threats and emergencies but it wasn't constant and the crew did have down time.

OK there were constant threats and emergencies but it wasn't constant? However did that work? There was certainly an emergency during Harbinger.

Bottom line I can't think of a single episode set in the Expanse where there wasn't a threat... Between the anamolies, Xindi, pirates, religous fanatics, and the sphere builders... The place was a death trap. There is no way that crew didn't know that off duty time was subject to change in an instant. Just like it is when you're in any hostile territory, be it a wagon train in the old west, or the pirate infested caribbian, or a trench in WW1, or an attic during WW2.

I'm sure that if there had been a "Lower Decks" episode with some paired up crewmen they wouldn't have excpectations for long sessions of pillow talk.

[Aquarius]

One of the "rules" of good drama is leaving your viewer wanting more. You can't do that if you don't interrupt something "good" from time to time. If you let all those bits finish, then all you're left with to show your viewer next time is day to day tedium--boring to watch, boring to read about.

[WarpGirl]

Well balance is a good theory to put into practice there. I mean if you give someone too little all the time, you're branded a tease and people think nothing is going to happen, and get tired of waiting for you. Let's face it the reason the show tanked, (and it did) was because they never did find any sort of balance. Not just with TnT either.

But still I find it unbelievable that anyone could expect long deep conversations about anything during season 3. They were quite literally in hell. On the TV show at least... Why does fanfic exist if they would do it all...

[pdsldl]

Being so close to death all the time makes for not taking anything for granted and reaching out for what you want because you might not be around tomorrow. For all the tension and life and death situations the expanse presented the crew with there weren't any signs of that with the senior crew and since they rarely showed the underlings we saw no seize the day type of behavior which would have been normal.

[Silverbullet]

WG, you cannnot live under tension constantly 24/7 week after week. You need down time You need a chance to act normally or you can go over th edge. Trip, T-Pol and rest of the crew had to have down time and to be able to have some kind of normacly. They were in a danger zone but not always in danger. They may have gone weeks without any alarms at all.

Even men in Combat in WWII would see a lull in the fighting. They would write letters, read their mail, play cards, do thier laundry or just shoot the bull. They wuld relax to relieve the tension. Try to be a bit normal for a short while. It is when a man is exposed to constant tension that "Battle Fatigue" sets in and the man needs to be pulled out of the line and treated. There is an expression "the thousand Yard Stare" on the face of men who had been in constant battle they were walking zombies.

Trip and T-Pol would have their down time. Have NP. During one of these NP sessions T-Pol seduced Trip. They weren't in a danger zone taht they knew of. The ship stood down. No security watches on every deck. No maning battle stations for half of the personell at a time.

[WarpGirl]

All I'm saying is this is fiction. And with the creepy anomalies that seemingly popped up out of nowhere (because it is fiction) downtime was not sacroscant. And unlike real life Enterprise could not be pulled out from the battle lines. Look at what Archer did to hoshi after they rescued her from the Xindi. Look at the whole episode of Home when Archer is obviously more screwed up than usual because he was under constant combat stress. ST isn't anything at all like real life and... Come on you know that the stress of war screws everyone up even if they aren't diagnosed because in a combat zone you are never safe, not even for one second. And the Expanse was a combat Zone. Why do you think they all went a little nuts? Malcolm, Hoshi, Trip, T'Pol, Archer, Phlox... I think the only one not to go a little off his rocker was Travis. That was the entire point of season 3.

And sure you might throw caution to the wind and do crazy stuff like one night stands but do you waste time talking. Not in any war movie I've seen. Because usually the shooting, bombing, or other catastrophy starts. It is a poppular technique the problem was it wasn't done well. But again it's fiction.

[honeybee]

The is something that TV writers fear as the kiss of death - the Moonlighting factor. Moonlighting was a huge hit show in the 80s, built around the sexual tension between the main characters. It was all based on the old Tracy/Hepburn stuff from old movies - or Carey Grant films with any number of women. When the two main characters (played by Bruce Willis and Cybil Shepherd) finally had sex - the show got its highest ratings ever. Then boom. Viewers lost interest and ratings plummeted. Show canceled.

The X-files was a totally different show in tone and story and everything, but the writers dragged out the Scully/Mulder thing until the very last season and the consummation happened offscreen. But everyone involved in that show felt like the moment they got together the show would be over.

Joss Whedon is one of the most talented writers in television, but he has admitted he does not know how to sustain a happy relationship and make it interesting. He tried in Firefly with Zoe & Wash, but that show didn't last and then. . .well, I don't want to talk about the movie.

I know Manny Coto was planning on giving it a go in the fifth season of ENT - and I wish he had tried it in the fourth. Since TnT were not the main focus of the show and they had built-in interspecies tension - it might very well have worked. Coto certainly said he was disappointed not to try.

[WarpGirl]

Prepare to be shocked Honeybee I loved moonlighing as a baby! Yeah I even understood what was going on. Crazy huh? The truth of the matter is there really isn't a curse though. The phrase is out there to nullify people. Writers don't drag things out because they have too, they do it either because they have a development planned, (like Bones) or they have such a huge story to tell and the pairing is question is such a small element that they can afford to wait (like The West Wing). Come to thing of it those are the two greatest will-they-won't-they tug of wars I have ever seen. Burn Notice is forgiveable because you realize the pair is so traumatized that the push-and-pull will take forever but unless one of them gets dead it will happen.

As for evidence that the Moonlighting Curse doesn't exist in reality take CSI... One even with a married couple with a baby! And yeah they're still smoking hot with sexual chemistry. There are shows where the Husband and Wife have sexual tension, McMillian and Wife, Heart to Heart, Scarecrow and Mrs. King, CSI NY, even The West Wing. The Bartletts were out of this world hot, and they're older than my parents. It's possible.

ENT was very very flawed. I know people like to say they were "Trekked out" but I don't buy it at all. First of all there are 3 CSI's all well past season 4 still ratings powerhouses. And they recycled all of their plots at least 100 times by now. Same thing with the L&O franchise. The origional just got cancled after 21 years. Wow I'm old... Anyway that show re-cast actors in different rolls and still does, and they've told the same stories over and over again. But they do it so well they're making a new one. These shows are popular because they were done well and right. Look at the ratings for ENT and its clear it was way more than people being Trekked out. It was done more badly than good.

[honeybee]

Warpgirl, I'm not arguing in favor or not in favor of the Moonlighting curse - but if you think tv writers and producers don't believe in it - you're wrong. They do.

[WarpGirl]

I think some say they believe in it... Oh well... I guess I'm just not supersticious. Maybe because its so easily disproven.

[honeybee]

It's not superstition, it's based on observable trends and data. There are exceptions to rule - but there are also dozens and dozens of examples of how the dynamic plays out - especially in soap operas and shows built around romances. I'm not saying it couldn't be done or hasn't been done - but the television writers aren't being silly or frivolous in their worry. If one of the most talented television writers of all time admits that the hardest thing to do is sustain a happy relationship - it's worth noting.

[WarpGirl]

That just means its hard not that it's a "curse" a curse implies supersticion. And I like Joss Wheldon I'm still broken hearted over Terminator The Sarah Conner Chronicals... I loved that show, I followed the blogs, the video interviews, everything... And Joss Wheldon said that romance wasn't his real talent. No harm no foul, you can't be good at everything. Well... Unless you're Cole Porter, the man could write any song he wanted. But that's another can of tuna..