"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[Alelou]

Well, you've bought lots of leeway from me with this chapter (though I now fear I will be screaming NOOOOOOO! during the next).

And yeah, near-death experiences are fine with me in a rollicking adventure story. Otherwise, what do you have? An extended romance, with maybe a mild sci fi element here and there.

like my stuff

[Rigil Kent]

Well, you've bought lots of leeway from me with this chapter (though I now fear I will be screaming NOOOOOOO! during the next).

Nah, probably not. I'm hoping more for the "well that's an interesting take ..." Remember, I'm not a big fan of angst for angst's sake.

And yeah, near-death experiences are fine with me in a rollicking adventure story. Otherwise, what do you have? An extended romance, with maybe a mild sci fi element here and there.

like my stuff

Yeah, but you're not trying to write an adventure story, right? You're writing a romance with the occasional adventure element sneaking in. I'm doing kinda the opposite.

[Pitseleh]

Thanks for the reply, Rigil.

The explanation does make a lot of sense, especially considering that this is the Trek universe. My brain has a hard time adapting to this sort of "super engineering" because of my training as an architect. While you are expected to have a notion about how everything works, from the outer design to the inner structure, the actual individual aspects are handled by the expert in each area, thus you have structural engineers and electric engineers and so on and so forth... So, while I am willing to accept that Trip is not only very intelligent (the guy must have at least a doctorate to handle his job) and his brain functions have improved given his Vulcan training and even the bond, I sometimes balk at the idea of him fixing and building everything, from the warp engine to the grav plating.

As for the rest, I am happy just like any TnT fan would be.

[Kotik]

Nah, probably not. I'm hoping more for the "well that's an interesting take ..." Remember, I'm not a big fan of angst for angst's sake.

That's why your story is so much better than some others that I've read, even though every week someone drops by and whacks T'Pol over the head or shoots Trip in the 'nads. It beats a will-they-won't-they massacre any day Some one hundred and eleventy pages ago in this thread one or more people complained that it took 40+ chapters for any more substantial sign of a TnT relationship, but IMHO it was one of the most realistic and believable build-ups i've ever seen (and that's saying something with me being a hardcore no-angst shipper).

Case in point: That neuropressure session where Trip suffered from a bad case of ejaculatio praecox. In more than one stories that i've read it would have started the following scenario:

Trip: *squirt*
T'Pol: You are an uncontrolled ape, I shall now push you away and act disgusted for the next weeks. Prepare to come back begging forgiveness on your knees.

Your TnT dealt with it in a somewhat mature and believable manner.

Yeah, but you're not trying to write an adventure story, right? You're writing a romance with the occasional adventure element sneaking in. I'm doing kinda the opposite.

They surely don't lack in adventure. And I think it has quite a good amount of romance in it, especially in the latter chapters. Let me give a comparison of pro and cons that make this story so interesting for me:

Pro

• Your TnT act very mature. We don't have any silly-ass high-as-a-kite Trellium junk that bends T'Pol's mind out of shape
• T'Pol sees and uses Trip's advantages. When she realizes that Trip has superior night-vision, she admits and accepts it without bending over backwards to avoid having to admit it.
• You give an incredible depth to other characters (especially Archer, Malcolm, Erika, Soval and Travis)
• Your Soval really is the S#it I love it how you developed him (the "Maywheather Fook" any one? )

Con

• Trip had to kill a lot of people, including that coup de grâce for that young girl (which wrenched my guts for sure). Maybe he 'dealt' with that a little too quickly.
• Hoshi seems a tad underused.
• I'm still intrigued by that mysterious family they were with for a while. Somehow that whole thing is still dangling somewhat unresolved. Since you're usually not the guy to left any plot-strings dangling unresolved, I've got the feeling that the Brady-bunch will make a comeback at one point.
• Daniels. I punch the hate-button instinctively as soon as that numbnut shows up, because many stories with him end in a big honking reset-button resolve. Relying on you that this won't happen. If he were to reverse the events (ie preventing/reversing the crash) it would destroy a brilliant story. O loved how you used him to convice Soval to help pilfer the Enterprise

Cheers, Kotik

[panyasan]

That's why your story is so much better than some others that I've read, even though every week someone drops by and whacks T'Pol over the head or shoots Trip in the 'nads. It beats a will-they-won't-they massacre any day Some one hundred and eleventy pages ago in this thread one or more people complained that it took 40+ chapters for any more substantial sign of a TnT relationship, but IMHO it was one of the most realistic and believable build-ups i've ever seen (and that's saying something with me being a hardcore no-angst shipper).

The reason I like this story so much is because it's a so build relationship that comes across very realistic. Take for example the lastest chapter: T'Pol takes a step toward being intimiate with Trip and it comes at the right time and after a conversation which reveals how much they care about each other. (I really liked Trips speech to T'Pol; I think it's the best speech any guy could give in his own way declaring his love.) The funny thing is, in the story the sexual tension and longing for T'Pol by Trip made me take his side completley and for his sake wanted that this moment had come sooner. Which I am glad it didn't, because it wouldn't work that well as it is now. Prove how well the story is written.

Con
[list]
[*] Trip had to kill a lot of people, including that coup de grâce for that young girl (which wrenched my guts for sure). Maybe he 'dealt' with that a little too quickly.

I disagree, Kotik. Trip is acting like any soldier dropped in a war zone would act. He was haunted by that first kill. Also he has hardly has time to deal with the death and distruction around him, because every time he has to fight to survive. I do see that Trip has changed: he has become harder. It's something T'Pol noticed in the story and regrets. But it's no surprise given the hard situation Trip has been living for a year now.

EDIT: BTW, one of the things I liked about the last chapter is that Trip is finally beard free! I don't think beards look good on Trip. He found a shaver in the Vulcan ship. Very interesting - I hardly have seen a Vulcan with a beard of any facial "decoration" - shaving must be a daily routine after meditation for the Vulcan male.

[Transwarp]

In your notes at the end of chapter 66, you write:
"And if you're expecting an NC-17 chapter to fill in the blanks, sorry to disappoint. I don't write those. YOUR imagination will do a better job of describing the hot Vulcan lovin' than I could."

I for one much prefer the fade-to-black approach, and not because I'm offended by graphic sex, but for the very reason you mention. In my experience, most (not all, but most) of the graphic sex scenes I've read tend to become tedious and boring. That's why I rarely make it down to the decon chamber.

As for Trip knowing how to build a working transporter, I had no problem with that. I have certain automatic suspension-of-disbelief mechanisms that kick in when I read or watch sci fi, and the hero engineer who can fix everything from warp-drives to electric motors to subspace communicators is one of them. Hoshi is another example of this. She is basically a linguist, but on the show they have her slotted as the communications officer, who in the real world would be responsible for operating and maintaining the ship's communication SYSTEMS from a technical standpoint, not translating alien languages. The two jobs require entirely different skill sets (says the former Army signal officer who could not learn a foreign language to save his life.) Or Hoshi the code-breaker, yet another example of disparate skill sets (most cryptanalysts have backgrounds in math and computer science, not linguistics. A facility in foreign languages will not help you devise a known-plaintext attack on a sixteen-round block cipher. I don't mean to pick exclusively on Hoshi here, Malcolm was involved in many things outside his normal field of expertise (for example the work he was doing on designing and testing force fields--not something normally in the job description of a tactical officer. And shipboard security is also a completely separate field from weapons or tactical officer in the real world.

Anyway, I've started to ramble. I think my initial point was that I just gloss over these inaccuracies and they don't distract from my enjoyment of the story (Although I clearly still NOTICE them--I can't help that; it's how I'm wired!)

[aadarshinah]

Factor in T'Pol's brain training, wherein his memory has become utterly eidetic, and you get a Trip who can close his eyes and remember every single technical schematic for the transporter that he's ever looked at.

Playing devil's advocate here (and knowing nothing at all about eidetic memories), wouldn't this do absolutley no good? I mean, yes, he has the memory now, but what good does that do him in remembering things he's already forgotten?

But oh well. Had to put that out there. Like your explination too much to really care for an answer.

[Alelou]

:Yeah, but you're not trying to write an adventure story, right?

You're a gentleman, Rigil.

[Rigil Kent]

Shhh! Don't tell anyone!

The explanation does make a lot of sense, especially considering that this is the Trek universe. My brain has a hard time adapting to this sort of "super engineering" because of my training as an architect. While you are expected to have a notion about how everything works, from the outer design to the inner structure, the actual individual aspects are handled by the expert in each area, thus you have structural engineers and electric engineers and so on and so forth... So, while I am willing to accept that Trip is not only very intelligent (the guy must have at least a doctorate to handle his job) and his brain functions have improved given his Vulcan training and even the bond, I sometimes balk at the idea of him fixing and building everything, from the warp engine to the grav plating.

Yeah ... the super engineer thing does get a little "huh?" at times, but I generally just nod and go with it. Just like how Sam Carter or Rodney McKay over on Stargate carry around a bottle of liquid deux ex machina in their tool bag, ya know?

even though every week someone drops by and whacks T'Pol over the head or shoots Trip in the 'nads.

Well that's a bit of an exaggeration, yeah? Let's see, the last time either of them were in any real danger was Trip's one-man assault to rescue T'Pol (ch 57), which was 295 days (258 Earth days) after the crash landing. The most recent chapter is 415 days (363 Earth days) after the crash landing, which is 120 days (68 Earth days) later. Not quite every week, eh? Just look at it as them being almost on a separate adventure show as the rest of the crew - they have weekly adventures that would invariably lead to permanent injuries but don't, just like the other Main Characters on ENT do.

Your TnT act very mature. We don't have any silly-ass high-as-a-kite Trellium junk that bends T'Pol's mind out of shape

Sadly, that really does make them stand out from the canon characters, doesn't it? sigh

T'Pol sees and uses Trip's advantages. When she realizes that Trip has superior night-vision, she admits and accepts it without bending over backwards to avoid having to admit it.

With that, I just wanted to approach the entire thing from a logical point of view. Yeah, she doesn't like that he's better at night than she is, but it wouldn't be logical to whine and moan about it. For survival purposes, it's smarter to just accept it, use it, and move on. Trip's the same way - he hides it just as well, but I see him as still being slightly intimidated by the sheer breadth of T'Pol's knowledge and training. Mostly though, I wanted them to mesh into a smooth unit and, at some point down the road, I'm very much planning on having the ENT crew observe firsthand just how smooth they are. Hell, I doubt they even realize just how well they work together right now because it's become subconscious and second nature.

Your Soval really is the S#it I love it how you developed him (the "Maywheather Fook" any one? )

I'm having a lot of fun playing with Soval. A lot of fun. Also? I really like Gary Graham.

Trip had to kill a lot of people, including that coup de grâce for that young girl (which wrenched my guts for sure). Maybe he 'dealt' with that a little too quickly.

Spoiler: he hasn't dealt with it at all. He's just suppressed it and moved on. But overall, yeah, he has hardened quite a bit, but that's intentional. If you look at the pics I chose @ my site for each chapter installment, you should notice how I went from a smiling Trip to a stone-faced one. Again, my madness has a reason.

Hoshi seems a tad underused.

She's very underused, and it bothers me a lot. Phlox is even worse off and I keep trying to work the two back in somehow (fortunately, I've got a Hoshi chapter coming up that doesn't suck so that mitigates her underuse slightly.) Mostly, I blame my general inability to get into their heads.

I'm still intrigued by that mysterious family they were with for a while. Somehow that whole thing is still dangling somewhat unresolved. Since you're usually not the guy to left any plot-strings dangling unresolved, I've got the feeling that the Brady-bunch will make a comeback at one point.

No comment.

Daniels. I punch the hate-button instinctively as soon as that numbnut shows up, because many stories with him end in a big honking reset-button resolve. Relying on you that this won't happen. If he were to reverse the events (ie preventing/reversing the crash) it would destroy a brilliant story. O loved how you used him to convice Soval to help pilfer the Enterprise

Daniels is the reason the crash happened in the first place so he's not going to reverse that. I loath reset buttons with the passion of a billion suns so you can put your mind at ease there. To be honest, I don't know when or even if he's going to show back up so that might help too.

The reason I like this story so much is because it's a so build relationship that comes across very realistic.

Yeah, I definitely wanted to take the slow burn (heh - didja get it?) approach with them. Start out as friends, then slowly evolve beyond that. Are the misunderstandings gone? Nope. Trip wouldn't be human if he didn't wonder whether T'Pol would be doing the same thing she's doing with any guy she happened to be trapped here on (and the author grudgingly admits that such an alternate pairing could happen, but would take a whole lot longer for reasons that I don't need to really go into.) Plus, there are some more upcoming reveals that will affect their relationship - nothing especially crazy, just some neat ideas I wanted to play with - so their travails are far from over.

I really liked Trips speech to T'Pol; I think it's the best speech any guy could give in his own way declaring his love.

Thank you kindly.

I do see that Trip has changed: he has become harder. It's something T'Pol noticed in the story and regrets.

And its something she will continue to regret. Ironically, I see both of these two as blaming themselves for how much their partner has changed - Trip feels a little guilty that T'Pol is becoming more openly emotional due to his influence, for example, while she fears that she's turned him into a weapon (which, frankly, she has, but it was essential for survival) - so there will be some angst, just not the "I love you, I hate you, come here, go away, its just an experiment, I want you back, OMG I'm stoned out of my mind" kind of angst. I'm going for a more realistic take (or as realistic as one can be in Trek, eh?)

BTW, one of the things I liked about the last chapter is that Trip is finally beard free!

If you think you're happy, imagine how pleased he is. Or T'Pol. Actually, it's a toss-up which one is happier...

He found a shaver in the Vulcan ship. Very interesting - I hardly have seen a Vulcan with a beard of any facial "decoration" - shaving must be a daily routine after meditation for the Vulcan male.

Well, we had MU Spock with the goatee, Sybok from that movie that was sort of de-canonized, and Soval had a goatee in the MU also so they can obviously grow a beard ...

In your notes at the end of chapter 66, you write:
[i]"And if you're expecting an NC-17 chapter to fill in the blanks, sorry to disappoint. I don't write those. YOUR imagination will do a better job of describing the hot Vulcan lovin' than I could."

I for one much prefer the fade-to-black approach, and not because I'm offended by graphic sex, but for the very reason you mention. In my experience, most (not all, but most) of the graphic sex scenes I've read tend to become tedious and boring. That's why I rarely make it down to the decon chamber.

I generally agree, although I freely admit I've read a couple of NC-17 fics that I've really liked. For the most part, though, I just prefer to let the audience imagine it as they will. Plus? I haven't given a lot of thought to female Vulcan genitalia apart from knowing T'Pol shouldn't be identical to a human woman, and I don't want to venture into that territory without doing some extensive research. So ... anybody know of a stranded, uber-hawt Vulcan babe on this planet I could ... "research" with?

I think my initial point was that I just gloss over these inaccuracies and they don't distract from my enjoyment of the story (Although I clearly still NOTICE them--I can't help that; it's how I'm wired!)

I'm wired like that too. I hate watching television or movies anymore, 'cause I automatically start picking it apart ...

Playing devil's advocate here (and knowing nothing at all about eidetic memories), wouldn't this do absolutley no good? I mean, yes, he has the memory now, but what good does that do him in remembering things he's already forgotten?

Normally, yeah, but this is Trek science and low-level telepathy on T'Pol's end does come into play. Believe it or not, I have thought about that, but ultimately decided to hand-wave it away by simply blaming it on Vulcan training. Plus, I always kind of envisioned Trip as having a nearly eidetic (or photographic as you may know it) memory anyway, so T'Pol's just enhancing what's already there.

[Kotik]

I'm having a lot of fun playing with Soval. A lot of fun. Also? I really like Gary Graham.

I really hated, how Soval was being protrayed in the first 3 seasons. Where's the logic in appointing an ambassador, who practically thinks that all humans are window-licking idiots who couldn't catch a cold without proper Vulcan supervision. Your Soval come across much more realistically and I like how you captured that dry wit of his - which he showed in that scene with Trip (talking about how he successfully hid his fascination with humans)

Spoiler: he hasn't dealt with it at all. He's just suppressed it and moved on. But overall, yeah, he has hardened quite a bit, but that's intentional. If you look at the pics I chose @ my site for each chapter installment, you should notice how I went from a smiling Trip to a stone-faced one. Again, my madness has a reason.

That's what I was hinting at. Quoting from personal experience here. While I've never been shot at during my military service (I was a trucker and jetstream boat skipper in a sapper unit) - being born and raised in east germany, I took part in the 1989 uprising. I quite vividly remember that I almost shat my pants at the end of our first (then illegal) Monday Protest (demonstrations were held monday nights). It ended with us looking into the barrels of quite a lot of Kalashnikov AK-74's and AK-47's. This little spiel repeated itself each monday for weeks and we sort of "got used" to it, but when stuff started changing and realization hit home, just how thin a line we walked between only looking into a barrel or biting an actual bullet, it gave me nightmares for a long time.
So I sorta expect some troubles along the road, especially since he just suppressed all this, which for humans usually is an express ticket to clinical depression.

I'm still intrigued by that mysterious family they were with for a while. Somehow that whole thing is still dangling somewhat unresolved. Since you're usually not the guy to left any plot-strings dangling unresolved, I've got the feeling that the Brady-bunch will make a comeback at one point.

No comment.

Darn, I knew it

Daniels is the reason the crash happened in the first place so he's not going to reverse that. I loath reset buttons with the passion of a billion suns so you can put your mind at ease there. To be honest, I don't know when or even if he's going to show back up so that might help too.

My major gripe with Daniels is, that for a temporal agent and all the über-responsibility it implicates, he was remarkably inept and just a TPITA (Temporal Pain In The Arse). I for once hope that he'll end up counting his blessings that TnT, whom his idiocy stranded in the first place, will clean-up his mess without him intervening any further.

And its something she will continue to regret. Ironically, I see both of these two as blaming themselves for how much their partner has changed - Trip feels a little guilty that T'Pol is becoming more openly emotional due to his influence, for example, while she fears that she's turned him into a weapon (which, frankly, she has, but it was essential for survival) - so there will be some angst, just not the "I love you, I hate you, come here, go away, its just an experiment, I want you back, OMG I'm stoned out of my mind" kind of angst. I'm going for a more realistic take (or as realistic as one can be in Trek, eh?)

One thing that your story has as a main theme is, how flawlessly they've come to work together and my biggest hope is, that it stays that way - meaning that there'll be no T'Pol shutting him out, because she thinks (and unilaterally decides) she has to handle a certain problem by herself, while not giving a flying expletive what this shut-out does to him. That has been the main plot-crutch for way too many stories and usually has ne stop reading as soon as the author starts to make Trip beg for being let in back into her life.
The thing that I can see about them having changed is, that they do not only regret the changes to their SO but also to themselves. I can see Trip loathing what he had to become in order to survive. It would be a real treat if both would start working together on reclaiming some of their former character once they're off this dang planet.

Well, we had MU Spock with the goatee, Sybok from that movie that was sort of de-canonized, and Soval had a goatee in the MU also so they can obviously grow a beard ...

Except for Sybok, there is no indication of a Vulcan with a furry face in the RU, only in the MU. Add to that, that Spock's facial and chest fur may well be a treat, he acquired through his human half.

Normally, yeah, but this is Trek science and low-level telepathy on T'Pol's end does come into play. Believe it or not, I have thought about that, but ultimately decided to hand-wave it away by simply blaming it on Vulcan training. Plus, I always kind of envisioned Trip as having a nearly eidetic (or photographic as you may know it) memory anyway, so T'Pol's just enhancing what's already there.

This ÜberMemory!Trip is one of the (thankfully very few) elements of your story that I have problems buying. I know it's a bit of a plot tool, but it came a bit left-field and his improvement was way too quick. They've been on that planet for roughly a year, but such a high level of improvement would have taken months after months of intense training.
But it's a minor foible as there are many more things in the Trekverse that are far more difficult to believe.

[Rigil Kent]

I really hated, how Soval was being protrayed in the first 3 seasons. Where's the logic in appointing an ambassador, who practically thinks that all humans are window-licking idiots who couldn't catch a cold without proper Vulcan supervision.

Well, if you view it through the prism of the VHC being contaminated by Romulans that far back, it makes perfect sense. His abrupt reversal in season 4 (along with, for example, Hoshi's inexplicable ass kickery) was what made me go "huh?" Sure, I preferred the season 4 portrayal, but just like the before-mentioned Hoshi change, it was such a radical character change with little to no basis as to why it happened that it just didn't feel organic for me.

While I've never been shot at during my military service

I have and it wasn't that bad for me. Never had nightmares, no psychological issues (apart from being a misanthrope, but I was that way before combat), and so on. Will it come back and affect Trip down the road? Yes. No. Maybe. Probably. I dunno.

My major gripe with Daniels is, that for a temporal agent and all the über-responsibility it implicates, he was remarkably inept and just a TPITA (Temporal Pain In The Arse).

In that case, I recommend you reread that Soval POV chapter where he shows up. I tried to imply that his "ineptness" was actually an act of some sort intended to manipulate Archer & the rest of the ENT crew (and it worked flawlessly), since he abandoned that act the moment he was alone with Soval. My incarnation of him isn't as incompent as the canon version seems to be.

One thing that your story has as a main theme is, how flawlessly they've come to work together and my biggest hope is, that it stays that way - meaning that there'll be no T'Pol shutting him out, because she thinks (and unilaterally decides) she has to handle a certain problem by herself, while not giving a flying expletive what this shut-out does to him.

No, I have no plans to do that. I hate that. TnT in my story are a team. Yeah, they have some trouble talking at times and arguing is their foreplay, but by this point in their relationship, neither one of them is just going to shut the other out - too much is at stake already.

Except for Sybok, there is no indication of a Vulcan with a furry face in the RU, only in the MU.

Not true. This guy instructed Tuvok in the 2270s, and has a beard so I felt it was believable enough to have a shaver aboard this ship.

This ÜberMemory!Trip is one of the (thankfully very few) elements of your story that I have problems buying. I know it's a bit of a plot tool, but it came a bit left-field and his improvement was way too quick. They've been on that planet for roughly a year, but such a high level of improvement would have taken months after months of intense training.

And I'd argue that there are months and months of intense training going on. Remember, I skipped over most of the "training sessions" because I have absolutely no idea how this would work or what they'd do to teach it, and it's already a given that Trip is something of a savant, so I felt it sufficiently believable to go with. One element I haven't really been focusing on is that this training is still ongoing - he's still learning this stuff all the time. Again, I cannot emphasize T'Pol's hand in this matter either - not only is she a telepath who doesn't know what she's doing, she's also very focused on Trip's survival (remember "Taskmaster T'Pol?") Think of it as Trip having a training montage and roll with it, eh?

But yeah, there are certainly crazier things in Trek that are just accepted (cough*vulcans*cough)...

[Linda]

I am greatly enjoying Divergent Paths, started reading fairly rapidly through from chapter 1 a couple of days ago. I am now on Chapter 31. Soon I will be caught up and have to wait for more like everyone else.

[aadarshinah]

Except for Sybok, there is no indication of a Vulcan with a furry face in the RU, only in the MU.

Not true. This guy instructed Tuvok in the 2270s, and has a beard so I felt it was believable enough to have a shaver aboard this ship.

And, as always, just becuase they don't wear facial hair, usually, doesn't mean they don't grow it. It's like their hair - they can grow it out, but for some reason they prefer their ubiquitous short cuts... its probably cultural.

[Kotik]

And, as always, just becuase they don't wear facial hair, usually, doesn't mean they don't grow it. It's like their hair - they can grow it out, but for some reason they prefer their ubiquitous short cuts... its probably cultural.

I would hazard a guess that it is down to genes wether or not they can grow much facial hair. If I don't shave for 4 weeks, I can give Santa a run for his money and my chest hair is known to be referred as 'natural shirt' (Brust-Pullover in German), while my brother has almost no body hair, except his mop and eye-brows. I can imagine that most Vulcans have a genetic disposition towards low amounts of body hair as it serves no real purpose evolution-wise. It's not like you need means to keep you warm on that planet.

[Alelou]

I was under the impression that Vulcan could get cold at night.

Or maybe I just assume that because it's true of many desert locales.