"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[Rigil Kent]

<sigh> OK I guess it kind of stung because you asked me if I read the chapter.

I'm blunt like that. You get the good with the bad. The flipside works as well: your initial comments could be perceived as rather stinging as well since they boiled down to "Disappointed. Thought this chapter was a waste of time." Hence, my reply may have been unnecessarily brusque. Thus, I apologize for any ruffled feathers or hurt feelings - but it ultimately goes to my personality. If somebody pushes (or I perceive that they are pushing), I tend to push back. Alas.

My main question is why you felt the need to rehash Archer's survior's guilt? Over the course of the story you've dealt with his emotions with incredible skill. But this chapter it seemed reduntant. His thoughts are repetative (which is normal in his condition) however I already knew he's a bit messed up from this. Perhaps I felt like I had already been there done that, I'm waiting for the big blow up.

PTSD isn't something that a person can simply get over, though, which is why it was touched on once more (and will be addressed again down the road.) It goes to his state of mind and shows how he is developing as a character. It's really no different, IMO, than when I have Trip reflect on his (he believes) unrequited feelings toward T'Pol over and over and over. And I generally try to avoid doing things that don't have a purpose down the road.

As for Travis and fishstick, I don't honestly believe they'd even attempt to make him an ambassador. He's too young, knows nothing about politics that we have seen, and if the only reason Starfleet wants him to do it is because he bedded her well...

Again, I'm afraid you missed this. Starfleet doesn't want anything of the sort. It is the Diplomatic Corps - think the equivalent of the State Department or Foreign Ministry or something - who is pressuring Starfleet to promote Mayweather so they (the Diplomatic Corps) can use him to get what they want out of a potential alliance with Krios Prime. ADM Forrest specifically blocked their attempt to snatch Travis and his warning to Archer was intended to allow the captain to come up with excuses why Mayweather couldn't leave.

I guess I don't see Precious Cargo making such a huge impact.

It's an AU. In the Mayweather chapter I pretty clearly tried to establish that it had a slightly great impact than in canon because Travis very likely talked up the Boomer experience, which led to the opening of new trade routes and a possible loose alliance. Hence, in this universe, it is more a big deal.

Plus? I tend to look at more realistic aftermaths of events than canon Trek which will generally have major events and then never address the ramifications again (e.g., experimental brain surgery in Similitude, or the events in Cogenitor, and so on.)

As for ff.net there are very good reasons I don't use it anymore.

But you read it there, right? I get anonymous reviews all the time - a person doesn't have to be logged in to fanfiction.net to actually leave a review, so I don't quite understand the problem.

Would you be willing for me to PM if I wan't to write a review?

If you wish. I just don't see the issue with anonymous reviews over there...

[honeybee]

It's the author's choice whether or not to allow anonymous reviews on ff.net.

[panyasan]

I kind of liked Archer feeling guilty about Trips death and realizing how much he depended on him. I always like when some one is putting more layers to the character of Archer and he is very depressed after Shockwave part one, so it's fits. The whole Travis-thing - I see it as harmless fun - a way to relax in this story that has a lot of tension. I agree Travis is young, but not too young to serve in Starfleet and to carry the important job of pilot and is some cultures you had young kings and queens. Like Soval says Travis has potential, but needs more training. And was Soval attempting to joke in a very lame matter? (I will leave a proper review on FFnet, promise!)

[pdsldl]

I kind of liked Archer feeling guilty about Trips death and realizing how much he depended on him. I always like when some one is putting more layers to the character of Archer and he is very depressed after Shockwave part one, so it's fits. The whole Travis-thing - I see it as harmless fun - a way to relax in this story that has a lot of tension. I agree Travis is young, but not too young to serve in Starfleet and to carry the important job of pilot and is some cultures you had young kings and queens. Like Soval says Travis has potential, but needs more training. And was Soval attempting to joke in a very lame matter? (I will leave a proper review on FFnet, promise!)

I agree Panyasan. If you don't relieve some tension for the characters; as well as; the readers it all gets to be too much.
I like that you can see the relationship developing between Soval and Archer. And Travis was young but very capable. Wasn't part of the problem, in the show, with he and his brother that he bailed on them and his responsibilities as the son of the captain? I assume he would have been in line for some authoritative position when his father died if he had remained. And his boomer years would have prepared him well for diplomacy as he had experience with other species and cultures.

[WarpGirl]

I thought the diplomatic corps was apart of Starfleet? Why else was Soval working with Starfleet and not Earth's government?

I know you don't get over PTSD I've had some experience with it myself. I just meant to say that the scene felt nearly identical as to others you've written. PTSD can manifest itself in many other ways. I look forward to exploring it more.

Sometimes I read one chapter in a story and I don't see how it fits, usually I figure it out with the context of the chapter after that. Especially in a story that is going between multipal POV's and situations that's why I did point that out in my initial comment...

I just didn't "get" what you are trying to do with this chapter.

I never meant to imply I wasted my time in any way. I appologize that anything I said may have implied that.

[pdsldl]

T'Pol was on Enterprise and working with Starfleet not the diplomatic corp so why wouldn't Soval be there in the same manner.

[WarpGirl]

Because it doesn't make any sense if they're two seperate entities. That's why. I honestly thought one was an extention of another. Unless I missed an episode... Its possible.

[Rigil Kent]

The actual chain of command is never really established - I was operating under the presumption that the Diplomatic Corps (guess I could have called it the Foreign Ministry or something, but with all the "Ministries" in the VHC, I thought this would work better) is compromised of non-Starfleet opportunists like Nathan Samuels (the slimy minister in "Demons" and "Terra Prime") and is a separate organization from Starfleet. Since I generally try to look at Starfleet as the equivalent of the 17th and 18th century British Navy (exploration and defense), it is a distinct branch. It seems perfectly logical to me - you have Starfleet explore and make initial contact with alien cultures, then you send in the real diplomats to hash out trade agreements and alliances for Earth. As to Soval, I figure he was basically assigned the job to keep Starfleet in check and other Vulcans - like Skon, perhaps - dealt with EarthGov.

[pdsldl]

Starfleet is the space exploration branch of the government and the diplomatic corp is another. They are both answerable to the government and Starfleet makes use of the diplomats as needed or when ordered to. There aren't diplomats in the Starfleet there are officers who are required to work with and through diplomats like Samuels. Soval was an Ambassador and I would assume his authority to be on Earth came from the government not Starfleet but his duties included babysitting Starfleet per whatever agreement the VHC and Earthgov came to. You can bet Starfleet received orders from some pretty high places within the government to allow T'Pol and/or Soval (aliens and non-members of Starfleet) on board Enterprise in any capacity.

[Silverbullet]

Okay, based on 30 some odd years in the Diplomatic Service. The Diplomats HATE to have an amatur trying to be a diplomat. That is why when there is a political payoff in the form of an Ambassadorship. A very experienced person is assigned as the Deputy chief Of Mission (DCM) That person actually does all of the real Diplomatic work while the political appointee attends parties, functions, receptions and Garden Parties. An amatur can screw things up (so do the diplomats but they know how to correct things). Even if Travis has had some experience with Aliens, it would be an experienced Diplomat who would be assigned the job.

The only exeption to this is post like London where the Ambassador has to be independently wealthy as his working allowace doesn't nearly cover expenses. The Appointee is out of pocket for a good deal of Cash. This is why all Ambassadors to The Crown are political appointees who are wealthy. Sometimes (as in the case of David K. Bruce,) the appointee becomes an experienced Diplomat.

Or at least it says here in fine print.

[pdsldl]

But out in space it most likely would be different. Archer often served in the role of a diplomat with new species because he had first contact and it's not easy to get folks to travel out in space. This was early in Starfleet's space exploration so full-fledged space ready diplomats may not have been available yet. The Coalition of Planets hadn't formed yet and even when it did the meetings seemed to take place on Earth. You use who you have and whomever might give you the edge you need to achieve what it is you want. And Travis may have not been trained in diplomacy but he had experience with other species that the diplomats on Earth didn't yet.

[Pitseleh]

Concerning Archer, I can very much see the described scenario taking place. While on the show we had a shaken Archer in "Home" who got magically better after some mountain time with Hernandez, this Archer doesn't have the possibility of downtime or even a bit of relaxation. Given the state of things, it would be normal for him to start second guessing himself and becoming isolated. Plus, if he has not grieved, feelings will continue to constantly resurface one way or the other (anger, sadness, frustration...) until they are addressed. Another good thing about the story is that while Archer's symptoms or contemplations might seem repetitive, at least they are consistent. On the show, during S3, Archer was all over the place during the Xindi Campaign. He went from angry to bitter to contemplative to reluctant to you-name-it without any rhyme or reason.

Whether the events concerning Princess Fishstick were relevant on the show or not doesn't matter much in this AU. Once you change the participants in the events, it's a whole new ballgame. I kind of feel sorry for Princess Boring; she seems clingy requesting Travis as an ambassador... But it obviously won't take place. I look forward to the interactions between Soval and the Boomer on the ship. That seems interesting.

[WarpGirl]

OK correct me if I'm wrong (really I won't mind) but in Broken Bow wasn't there a ruckus about Jonathan Archer not having enough diplomatic cred? And in ANiS didn't they try to convince him to use the diplomatic training he did have? I was under the impression that during this time at least Starfleet Captains were defacto diplomats and supposed to also be like ambassadors. Why else would Archer be allowed to mediate so many diplomatic conflicts? The point is to Seek out new civilizations right? Diplomacy is the way they would do that. So that's why I can't see the two as seperate. And that's why I can't see Travis being considered at all.

[pdsldl]

Archer was a pilot then a captain not a diplomat. He learned how to be more diplomatic on the job just like he learned to be a captain. He wound up acting as a diplomat because of first contacts and because he was requested because he was the most familiar human most species knew and some seemed to trust him. His attitude towards Vulcans in the beginning wouldn't have done much to recommend him as a diplomat.

[WarpGirl]

I realize that was his character... Hence the ruckus I referenced in Broken Bow. However it seems to me that Starfleet did and does expect Captains to be diplomats and have ambassadorial duties as well.