"Divergent Paths" Discussion

[panyasan]

Wow! I come back and their is a whole discussion. Thanks, Rigil for your response. I mostly agree with your remarks.
You are right, in season two they are not so close, but I do remember T'Pol sharing more in season one (Breaking the ice is a good example - you can say she did it because Trip read her mail, but still again, she could have not told him the details and ask for his advice.)
As for my suggestion of a short conversation, let say that my experience is that such a painful conversation can be very short. It's the "how I am going to deal with this" that takes time. And indeed, moving on to explaining T'Pols relationship with T'Pol can be seen as rash, but it depends on how the conversation flows. I sure hope T'Pol sharing about her illness will lead to a conversation in which in made clear to Trip T'Pol and Archer are not involved. BTW, the way T'Pol is acting in your fic, giving Trip access to her life in such a way - not by words, but by actions - tells me a lot how much she cares for him. Hopefully Trip will understand that one day.
I certainly love the build up relationship in Div. Path and truly enjoy the developments between TnT and the crew (Soval!) (if only to get a mental picture in my head of Travis dancing on the music of Barry White.)

[Pitseleh]

Ok, cool, so they will discuss the AinT (or lack thereof ) at some point in the future. That's great.

Now, regarding the frustration about TnT not being together yet, he's just building up to it, and unlike the actual show, I'm pretty sure this writer has a satisfying resolution for TnT fans in mind.

Oh ... so you don't want me to have them dance around each other for 10 years, resolve nothing, and then have arguably one of the smartest characters on the show spontaneously lose 100 IQ so he can die stupidly? Well, crap. There goes Plan A.

At least we didn't have to see the stupid 6+ years of unresolved issues before the blow-up. We were just forced to imagine them in a rage-induced blur. I'm sure those writers didn't mean to write the single most stupid, frustrating and pointless final ever; it's just what came out of... Wait, I don't want to know where that came out of... But yeah, let's just say I have higher hopes for your story. I do, after all, reject the piece of trash *the_abomination* is and replace it with Endeavour.

On his NCIS fic, he made us wait, what? 46 chapters for TIVA (Tony/Ziva), but it eventually got there and it was great.

Before the Dark Days, Before Season 7 killed that Muse with a USAS-12, a flamethrower and a MOAB. Thanks, NCIS showrunners!

Do not make me go into a full speech about how much the previous and current seasons have killed my interest on the previously mentioned show. I'm not quite sure why I watch any more since I'm pretty sure TIVA was KIA by moronic writers and unresolved issues, and lately... well, the show doesn't make sense any more.

Regarding TnT being right for each other: This story being set in an AU, it is hard to tell how things would proceed from here on in. On the show, by the time we saw Trip and T'Pol get involved ('cause we never got to see them in an actual relationship), we saw a Trip that was hurt by the death of his sister and who should have been disappointed by the actions of the man who was supposed to be his best friend (Archer). He was angry, resentful, and some other rather negative emotions I could add here. And of course, the writers decided that they just had to make T'Pol a drug user, so now we not only get a Vulcan who had Pan'Ar and therefore was already ill and emotionally unstable because of that, but was also suffering the aftermath of drug use. Then, we put these two people (who IMHO were attracted to each other--perhaps more in Trip's case) in a rather intimate setting on a regular basis under highly stressing circumstances and voilá... we get the pairing we saw on screen. Now, I'm a hard-core TnT 'shipper, but this was less than ideal writing. I have to admit that if I stop to look at these two individuals and their specific characteristics, I don't think they're a good match either, but that didn't stop me from wanting them to get together anyway--I still do. Same happens with the rest of my 'ships, really. The good thing about fic is that it gives the writers a chance for a do over: put them in "realistic" circumstances, give them mature attitudes, have them think about their actions and have such actions have consequences, good or bad. Now, that's worth reading.

[WarpGirl]

Amen!

[Alelou]

Seems to me they're getting along very well in DP. I don't notice any of the old bickering at this point (could be I've forgotten, since it's been awhile). Compared to Season 3 they are actually spending a great deal more time together and in skin-to-skin contact, too. So this suggests to me that they could get along well if they ever decided they wanted to seriously get along well.

[WarpGirl]

I think that in comparing Rigil Kent's story to 4 seasons of ENT what we are seeing in this story is a real true relationship. The show not-so-much. I think they had the potential of a wonderful relationship and they could have been extraordinarily good for each other, the basics were there. But it nerver happened.

[Rigil Kent]

So at any rate, I'm hoping for a Trip POV that fills in what seems to me like a pretty big blank there.

I'll see what I can do.

But to me that chapter before last was a great big cliffhanger, and then ... the cliff was left 15 days behind and nobody even seemed to remember they'd been hanging off any such thing. Granted, they had urgent issues calling their attention in the new chapter, which normally would have completely satisfied me, but before I could enjoy that one I had to get past the absence of something I had REALLY been looking forward to.

I blame ... someone else. [Han Solo voice] It's not my fault! [/Han Solo voice]

T'Pol is in a very difficult situation. She's becoming increasingly dependent on Trip for emotional support plus her affection for him is steadily deepening. Unfortunately, she knows she has a terminal illness, which accounts for Trip's crash course in survival skills. Regardless of her feelings for him, I think the last thing she would do is encourage him romantically. She's been around Humans long enough to know that if he falls in love with her, he's going to be distraught when she dies. I don't think she would want to put him in that position. To that end, she probably make every effort to keep things on a colleague to colleague basis. Perhaps that's the reason she refuses to call him Trip to his face.

Damn ... I should have just stayed in lurk mode and let Dinah post. In like a third of the words I used, she phrased my thinking better than I did.

I just wanted to say your Erika Hernandez is an absolute Goddess! Thank you so much for writing her so beautifully.

You're just saying that 'cause she chewed Archer out. She's got some issues of her own to deal with, not the least of which being inexperience. One of the limitations to the 3rd Person Limited voice I use is my inability to actually convey all of the things going on in my mental image of the various scenes. If this was not primarily a TnT fic, I'd probably try to devote more than every 3rd chapter to the events taking place on the NX-01 in order to convey just how bad things really are since this version of Erika has spent most of her Starfleet career rubbing elbows with politicians and diplomats, not aboard starships. Right now, she's very much not the best person to be in command ... although Jon? Not so much either since he's suffering from some serious survivor's guilt. Feh. Screw it. I'm gonna whack both of 'em and Reed and Kelby too so Travis can captain the ship. Yeah!

I loved it all of it... Well... Not Hoshi/Travis they're too much like siblings in my head because I have five brothers and that's how I treat them.

Well, if you're hoping for Hoshi/Malcolm, then prepare to be disappointed. I wanted to do something different and, immediately before I started writing the initial scene that set the Hoshi/Travis thing up, I happened to reread Zane Gray's "Differential" and decided to go the Hoshi/Travis route. I look at it thus: since Trip not on ENT now, I elected Travis to be the replacement Big Damned Hero (who isn't the captain), and as a BDH, he gets the romance subplot with the designated Ship's Babe (now Hoshi since Polly is off getting her native on with Tucker.)

I sure hope T'Pol sharing about her illness will lead to a conversation in which in made clear to Trip T'Pol and Archer are not involved.

Nope. I have a much niftier way of having that come out.

BTW, the way T'Pol is acting in your fic, giving Trip access to her life in such a way - not by words, but by actions - tells me a lot how much she cares for him. Hopefully Trip will understand that one day.

Well, if he doesn't, she'll hit him over the head with a lirpa and then drag his sorry carcass back to a cave somewhere until he gets his mind right.

Ok, cool, so they will discuss the AinT (or lack thereof ) at some point in the future. That's great.

Well ... yeah. They'd kinda have to eventually. I used a similar technique with the first part of "Transitional States" when Tony thought Ziva & Gibbs were getting horizontal (another mental image guaranteed to turn my stomach.) But yeah, they'll eventually have to discuss it. Maybe after the above-mentioned lirpa strike.

Do not make me go into a full speech about how much the previous and current seasons have killed my interest on the previously mentioned show. I'm not quite sure why I watch any more since I'm pretty sure TIVA was KIA by moronic writers and unresolved issues, and lately... well, the show doesn't make sense any more.

[Bill Clinton voice] I feel your pain. [/Bill Clinton voice]. God, do I feel your pain.

Same happens with the rest of my 'ships, really.

Well, I've noticed that my ships usually involve the female member of said pairing being a (potential) badass. Let's see:

• Trip/T'Pol. Ideally, she should have been capable of much ass kickery, being a former Vulcan spy and all.
• Luke Skywalker/Mara Jade. She's a former assassin.
• Tony DiNozzo/Ziva David. She's also an assassin.
• John Crichton/Aeryn Sun. Peacekeeper commando. Close enough to being an assassin, I think.
• Lee Adama/Kara Thrace (pre new Caprica & shark jumping.) Come on. She was fricking Starbuck.

Hmm ...

The good thing about fic is that it gives the writers a chance for a do over: put them in "realistic" circumstances, give them mature attitudes, have them think about their actions and have such actions have consequences, good or bad. Now, that's worth reading.

Actions having consequences is a major recurring theme in most everything I write (and probably explains why I hate so much television these days. Except "Justified." That shows kicks ass.)

I don't notice any of the old bickering at this point (could be I've forgotten, since it's been awhile).

To be honest, I always find that sort of thing really hard to write and was gratified that I had a logical explanation to have them make a conscious effort to not bicker. Survival is a tiny bit more important than winning an argument, eh?

Compared to Season 3 they are actually spending a great deal more time together and in skin-to-skin contact, too.

More time together, yeah. Not so sure about skin-to-skin contact. Maybe a little more? I see them has doing the neuropressure about as frequently as in season 3; they just happen to be generally share a sleeping space.

So this suggests to me that they could get along well if they ever decided they wanted to seriously get along well.

Well ... yeah, but in this AU, T'Pol isn't a trellium addict, Trip isn't bitter and resentful over his sister dying, and they're not on a suicide mission to save the planet. Sure, they're in hostile territory, surrounded by primitives intent on obliterating one another, but they only have each other to rely on. In this instance, it's a "get along or die" situation, and both of them are fairly uninterested in perishing right now.

Plus? T'Pol has a fantastic ass.

Wait ... that has absolutely nothing to do with my train of thought. Huh. Weird.

[panyasan]

T'Pol is in a very difficult situation. She's becoming increasingly dependent on Trip for emotional support plus her affection for him is steadily deepening. Unfortunately, she knows she has a terminal illness, which accounts for Trip's crash course in survival skills. Regardless of her feelings for him, I think the last thing she would do is encourage him romantically. She's been around Humans long enough to know that if he falls in love with her, he's going to be distraught when she dies. I don't think she would want to put him in that position. To that end, she probably make every effort to keep things on a colleague to colleague basis. Perhaps that's the reason she refuses to call him Trip to his face.

Sigh. Dinah just gave all the reasons why they stay colleagues.

[panyasan]

Plus? T'Pol has a fantastic ass.

Wait ... that has absolutely nothing to do with my train of thought. Huh. Weird.

[Rigil Kent]

T'Pol is in a very difficult situation. She's becoming increasingly dependent on Trip for emotional support plus her affection for him is steadily deepening. Unfortunately, she knows she has a terminal illness, which accounts for Trip's crash course in survival skills. Regardless of her feelings for him, I think the last thing she would do is encourage him romantically. She's been around Humans long enough to know that if he falls in love with her, he's going to be distraught when she dies. I don't think she would want to put him in that position. To that end, she probably make every effort to keep things on a colleague to colleague basis. Perhaps that's the reason she refuses to call him Trip to his face.

Sigh. Dinah just gave all the reasons why they stay colleagues.

No, she gave all the reasons why they try to stay colleagues. The best laid plans of ... Vulcans and men ...

Or something.

[Alelou]

Rigil, I have a confession completely unrelated to anything we're discussing here.

Everytime I see your avatar I think, "Is that Rigil Kent in drag?"

Then I go, "No, no, it's probably his girlfriend."

Then I go, "Or maybe it's some actress from some TV show he likes."

Then I say, "For God's sakes, don't you have better things to do than wonder about crap like this?"

But I still do...

[panyasan]

Rigil, I have a confession completely unrelated to anything we're discussing here.

Everytime I see your avatar I think, "Is that Rigil Kent in drag?"

Then I go, "No, no, it's probably his girlfriend."

Then I go, "Or maybe it's some actress from some TV show he likes."

Then I say, "For God's sakes, don't you have better things to do than wonder about crap like this?"

But I still do...

I think it's Ziva from NCIS. Or maybe she is his girlfriend.

[WarpGirl]

You're just saying that 'cause she chewed Archer out. She's got some issues of her own to deal with, not the least of which being inexperience. One of the limitations to the 3rd Person Limited voice I use is my inability to actually convey all of the things going on in my mental image of the various scenes. If this was not primarily a TnT fic, I'd probably try to devote more than every 3rd chapter to the events taking place on the NX-01 in order to convey just how bad things really are since this version of Erika has spent most of her Starfleet career rubbing elbows with politicians and diplomats, not aboard starships. Right now, she's very much not the best person to be in command ... although Jon? Not so much either since he's suffering from some serious survivor's guilt. Feh. Screw it. I'm gonna whack both of 'em and Reed and Kelby too so Travis can captain the ship. Yeah!

I most certainly am not Rigil!!!!!!!!! I like this Hernandez because she's a shiny character you've got there. She was shiny in Endevour too! Until you killed her... dong ma? If she had slapped down Malcolm or Rostov for something stupid I still would have cheered. And who said I thought she should be in command, even I can see she's a fish out of water.

Well, if you're hoping for Hoshi/Malcolm, then prepare to be disappointed. I wanted to do something different and, immediately before I started writing the initial scene that set the Hoshi/Travis thing up, I happened to reread Zane Gray's "Differential" and decided to go the Hoshi/Travis route. I look at it thus: since Trip not on ENT now, I elected Travis to be the replacement Big Damned Hero (who isn't the captain), and as a BDH, he gets the romance subplot with the designated Ship's Babe (now Hoshi since Polly is off getting her native on with Tucker.)

I said once before the only thing I'm hoping for is for you to write what you want. Even if it's not my thing, you do it so well that I find myself not caring that it isn't my thing. So have Travis as the "BDH" and have Hoshi fall for him... At least you've made Travis into an actual human being and not a cardboard cut-out. I admit I'm not capable of that. If I thought I could kill him as well as you did in Endevour I'd do it. But I can't.

You've got yourself many tales that are all sorts of shiny, I just hope I live to see the end of them all. But in the mean time "I aim to misbehave!"

[panyasan]

On a totally unrelated note, I was wondering why Trip couldn't figure out that T'Pol was interesting in him. But then again when you are going to watch an totally unknown sport game in the middle of the night, you would have think he would know you're interested, isn't it? (Pittburgh Steelers against Texas Cowboys. Cowboys won. Long time ago.) And with briljant conversations like "I told you so" "when and where?" "I gave a hint" "I do not understand subtle hints - I am a guy" after 10 years or marriage, there is still hope for Trip and T'Pol.
Edit: This was an attempt to a joke. Like my communication skills - like hubs rightly pointed out - it's problably far to subtle. I am working on both of them.

[WarpGirl]

Well on a slightly related note, I wanna know why men say they don't understand subtle hints, but when you're completely 100% up front with them they run for the hills at warp 10? Well...

[Alelou]

Context is everything. Some guys don't WANT to hear the subtle hints. Some truly don't hear them. If someone runs for the hills after you are upfront with him, you probably just avoided wasting time with a guy who wasn't really that into you (or into what you wanted).