"The Understanding"

[Aquarius]

Aquarius, I propose that next month's word challenge be: threeway. And there should be a prize for the fic that gets the most outraged comments. And for good measure, a prize for the fic that gets the least.

Oh my god... don't even tempt me.
peg

I might have to...just for giggles. It's time this thread had a tension-breaker!

So...if I do it, can we take it in the spirit of Big!Crazy!Fun! in which it's meant???

[Pegmumm]

Aquarius, I propose that next month's word challenge be: threeway. And there should be a prize for the fic that gets the most outraged comments. And for good measure, a prize for the fic that gets the least.

Oh my god... don't even tempt me.
peg

I might have to...just for giggles. It's time this thread had a tension-breaker!

So...if I do it, can we take it in the spirit of Big!Crazy!Fun! in which it's meant???

Sure, I'm up for it...
hmmm...
Oh god I'm twisted...
peg

[Aquarius]

K. I'll put it up in a few days...we still have a few days of March left.

Now let's return Crystalswolf to her regularly scheduled thread.

[crystalswolf]

Did anyone notice my entry for that challenge?


Ahem. Until next chapter...

[honeybee]

Well, I do have an idea for a Shuttlepod One rewrite where T'Pol is with Trip & Malcolm and they have a threeway. . . game of Scrabble.

had to say that! Now back to the thread.

[Distracted]

Already did my threeway story.

[Aquarius]

Already did my threeway story.

That's right!!

(Having not written a threeway fic, I was gonna say something about being a "threeway virgin," then realized that would be so, SO wrong...so very...ew...never mind. )

[Alelou]

There's an extremely x-rated three-way with Archer, Trip and T'Pol on ff.net (M, of course). I think it's by Koken Chang. It's definitely not for the faint of heart.

[Ezinma88]

There are quite a few things at this site (just as at any other site on the planet) that aren't my cup of tea. But I never felt compelled to announce that I'm not reading them. I just simply (discreetly) don't read them. If I can't gush on about how much I like a story, then I at least like to be in a position where I can be supportive and constructive. If I can't do that, then I just assume I'm not the target audience for the piece.

How is that attitude helpful, Aquarius? If you write a few lines 'gushing' about a story it's certainly a boost to the author's ego.... but then what? Does it improve their writing? Does it encourage them to undertake further research for future chapters? Does it spark debate between the community that reads their stories? No.

Being supportive and 'gushing' about a story is not the same thing as being constructive. Surely it's better to discuss the positives AND negatives? To discuss the things we liked, the things we didn't and the strength of our reactions to certain choices. Yes, there are some overly-passionate reactions to "The Understanding - it's concept is slightly controversial afterall. But, many of the people who have decided against reading future chapters have taken the time to constructively criticise her work.

Even if CW doesn't change a single thing that's fine. This process (in part sparked by the people you speak of) has left all of us with a better understanding of some of the creative choices CW made.

[Aquarius]

There are quite a few things at this site (just as at any other site on the planet) that aren't my cup of tea. But I never felt compelled to announce that I'm not reading them. I just simply (discreetly) don't read them. If I can't gush on about how much I like a story, then I at least like to be in a position where I can be supportive and constructive. If I can't do that, then I just assume I'm not the target audience for the piece.

How is that attitude helpful, Aquarius? If you write a few lines 'gushing' about a story it's certainly a boost to the author's ego.... but then what? Does it improve their writing? Does it encourage them to undertake further research for future chapters? Does it spark debate between the community that reads their stories? No.

Being supportive and 'gushing' about a story is not the same thing as being constructive. Surely it's better to discuss the positives AND negatives? To discuss the things we liked, the things we didn't and the strength of our reactions to certain choices. Yes, there are some overly-passionate reactions to "The Understanding - it's concept is slightly controversial afterall. But, many of the people who have decided against reading future chapters have taken the time to constructively criticise her work.

Even if CW doesn't change a single thing that's fine. This process (in part sparked by the people you speak of) has left all of us with a better understanding of some of the creative choices CW made.

I don't think you quite caught what I'm saying. I didn't say I only comment if I can gush; I said that if I can't gush, I'd like to be supportive and construcuve. Some things, though, I don't enjoy, so I don't read them. For example, if I disliked an episode enough that it would hinder my enjoyment of a fic based on it, I'm not going to sit there and give the author a hard time about it, I'll just pass it up in favor of something I might like better. It isn't productive or constructive to keep ragging on an author over something they're not likely to change, especially when it transcends expressing an opinion or disagreeing and crosses the line into interfering with the enjoyment of the people who do like it.

Furthermore, warning labels and key words exist for a reason. They are tools to help readers make an informed decision--not to give people a means to find things they don't like so they can use an author as a punching bag. Unfortunately much of what I see is akin to going down to Decon and then complaining that a story they read there had sex in it.

I think it's sad that I have to take heat for pointing out that people need to accept responsibility for reading any way despite warnings, and exercise a little self-control when disagreeing.

[crystalswolf]

Okay, since it's a thread based on my story, I have to jump into the fray... again.

Ezinma88, perhaps you missed it where someone ONLY stated they did not want to read my story. How is that helpful? How does that help me?

I don't mind people asking questions or stating their opinion. I welcome it. What I DO mind is when someone asks the same questions about a topic I've already answered. Or passing their opinion as a standard I should abide by. Or someone popping in just to say "Yeah, I'm not going to read it." (if you read and say you can't continue for X reason, THAT is a different story). Those things are not helpful and I should have put my foot down when it started happening. Thank goodness saner heads came in to stop the insanity.

[pdsldl]

I haven't read through the forum to see if my comment was what started this but if it was I apologize. I didn't mean to offend anyone I just tend to be a direct person and it gets me into trouble a lot. CW I read your first chapter giving it the benefit of a doubt just as I did when I read Aquarius' story when she issued a warning.

The idea of a threeway isn't what I object to. I personally think if a couples sex life is so crappy that they need to enhance it with a third party they're adults and as long as no one is physically or emotionally damaged go for it. But I also feel that if they truly love one another the option of sharing with anyone else would be impossible.

If we had not been given a solid morality for the characters or been given any indication that they were open to such things then I'd be fine with it but then they wouldn't be characters that found a place in my soul would they. I should not have said I wasn't go to read it but I still wish you to understand that I find this plotline distasteful because its goes beneath the dignity of Trip, T'Pol, and even Koss by trashing their morality. It twist their beliefs into unrecognizable characters for me and I reacted in the moment when I read the forum.

IF ANYONE TAKES Offense with my comments now or in the future please PM me. These types of discussions tend to get out of hand on the forum so should be private. I will refrain from making such statements in the future and I apologize to anyone that took offense.

[Ezinma88]

It isn't productive or constructive to keep ragging on an author over something they're not likely to change, especially when it transcends expressing an opinion or disagreeing and crosses the line into interfering with the enjoyment of the people who do like it.

I don't see the expression of honestly held opinions as 'ragging on an author'. I think the majority of people have been very respectful in presenting their thoughts, and it seems the most vocal 'detractors' still have a strong desire to read future stories from CW. So, what's the problem?

As for 'interfering with the enjoyment' of others.... What are you talking about? Who has done that? I see this thread as a debate about the concepts that CW has chosen to base her story on. People raise points, CW responds. Ultimately, we'll all agree to disagree... because CW is still continuing with the series. But, like I said previously... that's fine. No one's trying to censor the woman - just explain what didn't work for them.

CW's a big girl. When she opened this thread, she said herself that she was expecting a mixed response.... and that's exactly what her story's been given. If she feels 'ragged on' I'm sure she'll say... and the community and/or moderators will respond appropriately.

Furthermore, warning labels and key words exist for a reason. They are tools to help readers make an informed decision--not to give people a means to find things they don't like so they can use an author as a punching bag. Unfortunately much of what I see is akin to going down to Decon and then complaining that a story they read there had sex in it.

Ah, yes... the warning label:

Warning: This is TnT but if alternative marital situations offend, do not read!!!

Summary: Koss and family start a new life on Earth.

I can only speak for myself on this point, but a warning like this would never put me off a story. That's because I'm actually all for 'alternative marital situations'! I may be in the minority here... but I wouldn't care if T'Pol was married to Koss or Archer or had developed an unhealthy friendship with Porthos - as long as the author could adequately support their reasoning. I read Distracted's 'Charlie' and found it quite interesting overall. It's a story that's really stuck with me and I certainly wouldn't say no to another chapter.

I read CW's story with a similarly open mind, and yet I still didn't like it. These things happen, I guess.

I think it's sad that I have to take heat for pointing out that people need to accept responsibility for reading any way despite warnings, and exercise a little self-control when disagreeing.

As I pointed out, the warning just isn't enough for everyone - even for people who like 'alternative marital situations'! There's nothing that could have been done about that.

As for exercising 'a little self-control when disagreeing'... Well, there are definitely some strong reactions on this thread - just as CW expected. But, there are no personal attacks. No one doubts the calibre of CW's writing.

On my part, I explained what I really liked. I explained what I didn't like - I was blunt and made it clear that I wouldn't be reading any further. But, that's just my approach to reviews... and to life. I'm a very straight-forward, straight-talking person. I don't see anything wrong with that. CW posted a gracious response... end-of, as far as I'm concerned.

If others now want to voice their opinions on CW's story, so be it. I don't think it's your place to pass judgement on their posts. CW/the mods will speak up if members are indeed forgetting to excercise their self-control.

In the meantime, allow these two points to sustain you: 1) If pdsldl's post's any indication, at least you know you won't have to suffer through so many negative comments on the next chapter. 2) If your enjoyment really is being threatened please do not worry - I certainly won't be commenting any further on this issue.

E88

[Asso]

I desire to report at this point the posts CrystaWolf and I exchanged.
I think these posts are capable of speaking without any need of further comments.

Asso, I do not expect anyone to give up their ideas on TnT. I've read several stories that do not fit my personal perception of the relationship but I understand that each person sees things differently.

So, you can understand why I cannot enjoy this story.
Probably, I will await for another of the stories you are capable of writing.

That's perfectly fine with me Asso. I understand completely.

[honeybee]

Not one person has ever said that commentor shouldn't post constuctive criticism. And CW is a big girl.

1) However, once an author has addressed criticism and/or expressed a desire to continue with their premise - it is not appropriate to keep pounding at them. It isn't just unfair to them, but to those who would rather not see an author used as a punching bag. Tell me what the point is? To shame them into submission? To drive them from the site? To shame those who enjoy the work?

2) I've dealt with criticism that ignored my labels and it is frustrating. I write a fic that is clearly labeled as sticking to Twilight canon and angst. Then, I get how dare you have people die at the end? I wanted to write in canon. Well, you should not have. This is not a constructive comment, it is someone who disagrees with my premise. One comment saying this is fine. The same comment on every chapter plus pm-s demanding I change my story? Not cool. I wrote an MU fic and ran into "I hate MU fics". Okay, so why post that? What is the proper response.

I think as an author, I am less annoyed than as a reader since I like fics that take chances, and even when I don't, I wouldn't want anyone to be robbed of the enjoyment of reading or writing a fic that I didn't like because my taste is different. Restaurants have menus for a reason.