Vulcan Arc

[Aikiweezie]

I would have liked to have seen Archer prepared to go, and then at the last minute, T'Pol surprise them both by insisting Trip join her, instead. Of course, then we wouldn't get to see Awesome Trip take control of the tense situation aboard the ship.

Agreed. I also like to see Trip's natural leadership abilities and command presence emerge. I would have loved to see his character get his own command, although I doubt Trip would want that, unless the circumstances were dire, like the Romulan war.

[Brandyjane]

Agreed. I also like to see Trip's natural leadership abilities and command presence emerge. I would have loved to see his character get his own command, although I doubt Trip would want that, unless the circumstances were dire, like the Romulan war.

I think Trip was ambitious enough to want his own command, but I doubt he'd want to give up being chief engineer to do it.

[Silverbullet]

Trip looked great in Cease fire. He seemed every inch a Captain.

I just wish the writers had made Archer a little more falible, gave the other characters a chance to really shine. In Strage New World" Conner must have been given his head as he chewed up the scenery. Hell of an Acting job. Perhaps that scared TPTB. He may have made Trip too strong and forced Archer over as Nimoy made Spock so strong he becamea co-Hero of the series. and made Kirk move over. Actualy mae TOS a better series.

Certainly Conner could act rings around Bakkula. I wish his character had been the FO from the git go.

Of course if wishes were Horses we would all ride

[Rigil Kent]

The problem with Trip getting his own command (which I obviously like the idea of) is the same as with any other show like this: they're not going to do that until the show ends because otherwise it means writing him out. That's why Riker didn't get his own command, or why Tony DiNozzo on NCIS doesn't get his own team, and so on. Given that the writing was on the wall that this was the last season, though, it would have been nice to have seen something like this at the end of the series instead of ... that.

Personally, I felt the best parts of this arc revolved around Trip in command (he was a far better captain in those scenes than either Archer or T'Pol had been throughout the series, IMO), which is why I thought they missed a big opportunity in season 4. Tucker needed his own subplot apart from pining after and chasing after T'Pol (which, honestly, is all he really did in s4), and if they'd had Starfleet Command grooming him for his own command, the whole season would have worked better. But alas.

[aadarshinah]

Personally, I felt the best parts of this arc revolved around Trip in command (he was a far better captain in those scenes than either Archer or T'Pol had been throughout the series, IMO), which is why I thought they missed a big opportunity in season 4. Tucker needed his own subplot apart from pining after and chasing after T'Pol (which, honestly, is all he really did in s4), and if they'd had Starfleet Command grooming him for his own command, the whole season would have worked better. But alas.

It didn't even have to be a his-own-command subplot. It could have been anything - anything - from, I dunno, R&D wanting him to come back and work for them or his parents wanting him to take a posting on Earth because they wanted to spend more time with all of their children after Lizzie died. Just anything to give him a something other than T'Pol to worry about...

[Brandyjane]

Trip looked great in Cease fire. He seemed every inch a Captain.

I just wish the writers had made Archer a little more falible, gave the other characters a chance to really shine. In Strage New World" Conner must have been given his head as he chewed up the scenery. Hell of an Acting job. Perhaps that scared TPTB. He may have made Trip too strong and forced Archer over as Nimoy made Spock so strong he becamea co-Hero of the series. and made Kirk move over. Actualy mae TOS a better series.

I couldn't agree more. I'm okay with having Archer be the main hero, I just wish Trip hadn't been made to look foolish or weak so often. "Desert Crossing" annoyed the heck out of me for that reason, though I liked the general premise. "Dawn" gave us a much better "Desert Trip." Due to Connor Trineer's performance, "Strange New World" is the episode that made me really start paying attention to Ent, and it's up there in my all-time favorite Trek episodes.

Certainly Conner could act rings around Bakkula. I wish his character had been the FO from the git go.

Of course if wishes were Horses we would all ride

I'm working on a story that involves Archer, Trip, and T'Pol discussing the reasons why T'Pol is going to be the FO. I agree with you that it doesn't make sense for it to be T'Pol, so I'm writing something that tries to explain the reasons. Hint: It's not Archer, Trip, or T'Pol's idea, but they're stuck with it.

Personally, I felt the best parts of this arc revolved around Trip in command (he was a far better captain in those scenes than either Archer or T'Pol had been throughout the series, IMO), which is why I thought they missed a big opportunity in season 4. Tucker needed his own subplot apart from pining after and chasing after T'Pol (which, honestly, is all he really did in s4), and if they'd had Starfleet Command grooming him for his own command, the whole season would have worked better. But alas.

Agreed. Trineer had the kind of commanding presence as captain that I rarely saw from Bakula. (I write that as someone who likes Scott Bakula and usually likes Archer.) When he wasn't chasing T'Pol, Trip was just AMAZING! The episode where he does the space walk at Warp 5 and then does some sort of crazy-fast engineer repair was HOT!

[Rigil Kent]

Trineer had the kind of commanding presence as captain that I rarely saw from Bakula. (I write that as someone who likes Scott Bakula and usually likes Archer.)

I too am a Bakula fan - my fond memories of Quantum Leap were why I bothered giving ENT a try in the first place, although like you, I was soon watching the show for Trinneer, not Scott - but really can't blame him for the failings of Archer because, as you can see from the behind-the-scenes stuff and other shows (I really liked him in "Chuck" recently), he has the personality & gravitas to be an effective lead. Thus, it has to be the writing of the character.

But yeah, if they had given Trip a subplot other than just reducing him to chasing after T'Pol, I think a lot of people (Trinneer included) who complained about them robbing Tucker of his spine during season 4 might have been mollified. Show him struggling with not wanting to leave ENT, dealing with the T'Pol issues, and trying to hold off Starfleet Command from transferring him back home (probably because, as much as I like him in command, it would be more likely that they'd park him in R&D full-time.) Since his friendship with Archer was pretty much dead (and had been since "Cogenitor," even though the two didn't want to admit this), we could have Trip explaining his problems to Malcolm ...

As to the Vulcan arc, I maintain that it really couldn't have worked as well as it did with him on Vulcan with T'Pol and Archer on ENT simply because of the past between Archer & Soval. For the most part, there is something of a blank slate between Trip & Soval, which explains why they are able to get along as well as they did, whereas there are likely still some lingering issues between Archer & Ambassador Grumpy. Would Soval have trusted Archer as quickly as he did Trip, especially in regards to stopping the whole invasion of Andoria? I doubt it, simply because everyone at this point knew that Archer & Shran were friends, and that Archer seemed to have an in with the Andorians. Trip doesn't have that baggage.

[Aikiweezie]

The problem with Trip getting his own command (which I obviously like the idea of) is the same as with any other show like this: they're not going to do that until the show ends because otherwise it means writing him out. That's why Riker didn't get his own command, or why Tony DiNozzo on NCIS doesn't get his own team, and so on. Given that the writing was on the wall that this was the last season, though, it would have been nice to have seen something like this at the end of the series instead of ... that.

Personally, I felt the best parts of this arc revolved around Trip in command (he was a far better captain in those scenes than either Archer or T'Pol had been throughout the series, IMO), which is why I thought they missed a big opportunity in season 4. Tucker needed his own subplot apart from pining after and chasing after T'Pol (which, honestly, is all he really did in s4), and if they'd had Starfleet Command grooming him for his own command, the whole season would have worked better. But alas.

Amen! This is just one of the many, many reasons why "the_abomination" was stupid, and not particularly well thought out. Trip especially wouldn't be stuck in the same position all those years. No way. And also, if the T & T situation was as it was portrayed in.....that, I don't think T'Pol would have stayed on Enterprise. Trip, maybe, if no other better opportunities were offered, but not her. I don't think they could be on the same ship all those years and have the situation be anything but painful and uncomfortable.

[Rigil Kent]

T'Pol I could see staying there since she honestly doesn't have anywhere else to go (regardless of the "revolution" on Vulcan, her species has a long memory and she burned some bridges, plus she seems to be inexplicably drawn toward situations where she can wallow in emotional pain), but Trip has already shown us that he will walk away if necessary. One of the many finale fix fics I've got lodged in my brain and have never bothered writing follows some of this to its logical conclusion - when T'Pol pushes Trip away after "Terra Prime" (because honestly, does anyone believe that Tucker would be the one who ends their relationship?), he gives up and eventually accepts a transfer to R&D (which SFC has been clamoring for since season 2ish) where he stays until a couple of weeks before the events of the finale take place (so he was basically in skunk works during the E/R War rather than on the front lines.) Then he dies, T'Pol blames Archer and resigns to go back to Vulcan, and the rest of the crew scatter for 10 years. And that's when the story actually begins.

But reciting the numerous issues with that ... finale aren't really necessary, I think, since everybody knows how fraked up it was.

[Brandyjane]

But yeah, if they had given Trip a subplot other than just reducing him to chasing after T'Pol, I think a lot of people (Trinneer included) who complained about them robbing Tucker of his spine during season 4 might have been mollified. Show him struggling with not wanting to leave ENT, dealing with the T'Pol issues, and trying to hold off Starfleet Command from transferring him back home (probably because, as much as I like him in command, it would be more likely that they'd park him in R&D full-time.) Since his friendship with Archer was pretty much dead (and had been since "Cogenitor," even though the two didn't want to admit this), we could have Trip explaining his problems to Malcolm ...

You know, that's one set of relationships that they did right on Ent. It was inevitable that Archer and Tucker were going to have a falling out at some point, given the dynamic between captain and subordinate. I always got the impression that Trip was Archer's best friend, but Archer wasn't necessarily Trip's. I think Archer probably spent a lot of his childhood around adults and didn't have a lot of close peers. Then when he made it into Starfleet, there was probably distance between him and the other recruits because he was Henry Archer's Son. I would think some people would envy him and blame every advancement on his parentage, while others would try to court his friendship to get something for themselves. Trip, however, can get along with just about anybody, and they shared that deep admiration for Henry Archer. As for Trip and Malcolm's friendship, they did a great job of slowly building it up over the seasons.

As to the Vulcan arc, I maintain that it really couldn't have worked as well as it did with him on Vulcan with T'Pol and Archer on ENT simply because of the past between Archer & Soval. For the most part, there is something of a blank slate between Trip & Soval, which explains why they are able to get along as well as they did, whereas there are likely still some lingering issues between Archer & Ambassador Grumpy. Would Soval have trusted Archer as quickly as he did Trip, especially in regards to stopping the whole invasion of Andoria? I doubt it, simply because everyone at this point knew that Archer & Shran were friends, and that Archer seemed to have an in with the Andorians. Trip doesn't have that baggage.

You're right. I still think I'm going to see if I can write an AU fiction where Trip somehow gets the katra instead of Archer, though.

Okay, enough typing. I have to leave the house now, or else I'm going to get into trouble at work!

[WarpGirl]

As much as I respect Trip in a command position, I personally think he finds the most contentment as an engineer. Not that I think he would refuse his own ship, but I don't think he would be as happy without an engine. I definitely didn't want him to stop being an engineer in season 4.

My mom is actually a big Bakula fan.

[Rigil Kent]

As much as I respect Trip in a command position, I personally think he finds the most contentment as an engineer. Not that I think he would refuse his own ship, but I don't think he would be as happy without an engine.

Why does he necessarily need to have his own ship to have his own command? Starfleet R&D, where he gets to play with all of Starfleet's new toys, seems ideal for him, which is why I could actually see him leaving ENT and accepting that job if the situation (read: T'Pol's 'come-here-go-away' nonsense) got to be too much to handle.

But I actually think he would do a damned fine job as a ship's captain and would grow to love it. Just because he's the commander doesn't mean you'd take the engineer out of him. Any ChEng under him would need to go into the position knowing the captain is going to be getting his hands dirty and, as long as the ChEng is squared away, it could be a helluva learning experience.

[Silverbullet]

I have thought that Trip could accept a R&D position if TnT resolved thier probllems and become a couple. He would have the best of Worlds in his mind. Leaving T'Pol out of it doesn't go with the series. She is too close to Trip even if she plays catch me all of the time.

As far as T'Pol being FO (outside of the fact that she is a serving Officer in a foreign (alien in this case) military and could not possibly be offered the FO position as it would be against all Regs and Traditions. I thought that Archer having his federation in mind appoints T'Pol as FO to see if the crew could get along with a Alien Officer in a command position. He gets Trips agreement with the provision that Trip can step in if she fouls up. Other than that. Doubt if the Vulcans would allow an Alien Officer to command one of thier ships, or the Andorians, Tellerites, Klingons. so why would Humans go along with it? They were going in to Space big time in spite of the Vulcans objections.

[WarpGirl]

As much as I respect Trip in a command position, I personally think he finds the most contentment as an engineer. Not that I think he would refuse his own ship, but I don't think he would be as happy without an engine.

Why does he necessarily need to have his own ship to have his own command? Starfleet R&D, where he gets to play with all of Starfleet's new toys, seems ideal for him, which is why I could actually see him leaving ENT and accepting that job if the situation (read: T'Pol's 'come-here-go-away' nonsense) got to be too much to handle.

But I actually think he would do a damned fine job as a ship's captain and would grow to love it. Just because he's the commander doesn't mean you'd take the engineer out of him. Any ChEng under him would need to go into the position knowing the captain is going to be getting his hands dirty and, as long as the ChEng is squared away, it could be a helluva learning experience.

A. I realize that Trip doesn't need a ship to have his own Command. I assumed we were discussing the Command position on a ship.

B. I actually agree with you that he would adapt well to being a Captian, but I view it like a professional athlete becoming a coach... Yes there comes a time in their lives when they love running a team and being in charge of the whole opperation. However, it does not mean they will stop missing being a star player, and being deep in the action getting dirty. No more 16-20 hour shifts in engineering. Its the getting dirty that I think is an essential part of Trip's character. As a Captain that is no longer an option 99.9% of the time.

C. You must have missed this sentence...Not that I think he would refuse his own ship. Perhaps I should have said his own Command. In any case I don't believe he'd stay on Enterprise forever, nor should he.

[Asso]

Trip looked great in Cease fire. He seemed every inch a Captain.

I just wish the writers had made Archer a little more falible, gave the other characters a chance to really shine. In Strage New World" Conner must have been given his head as he chewed up the scenery. Hell of an Acting job. Perhaps that scared TPTB. He may have made Trip too strong and forced Archer over as Nimoy made Spock so strong he becamea co-Hero of the series. and made Kirk move over. Actualy mae TOS a better series.

I couldn't agree more. I'm okay with having Archer be the main hero, I just wish Trip hadn't been made to look foolish or weak so often. "Desert Crossing" annoyed the heck out of me for that reason, though I liked the general premise. "Dawn" gave us a much better "Desert Trip." Due to Connor Trineer's performance, "Strange New World" is the episode that made me really start paying attention to Ent, and it's up there in my all-time favorite Trek episodes.

Certainly Conner could act rings around Bakkula. I wish his character had been the FO from the git go.

Of course if wishes were Horses we would all ride

I'm working on a story that involves Archer, Trip, and T'Pol discussing the reasons why T'Pol is going to be the FO. I agree with you that it doesn't make sense for it to be T'Pol, so I'm writing something that tries to explain the reasons. Hint: It's not Archer, Trip, or T'Pol's idea, but they're stuck with it.

Personally, I felt the best parts of this arc revolved around Trip in command (he was a far better captain in those scenes than either Archer or T'Pol had been throughout the series, IMO), which is why I thought they missed a big opportunity in season 4. Tucker needed his own subplot apart from pining after and chasing after T'Pol (which, honestly, is all he really did in s4), and if they'd had Starfleet Command grooming him for his own command, the whole season would have worked better. But alas.

Agreed. Trineer had the kind of commanding presence as captain that I rarely saw from Bakula. (I write that as someone who likes Scott Bakula and usually likes Archer.) When he wasn't chasing T'Pol, Trip was just AMAZING! The episode where he does the space walk at Warp 5 and then does some sort of crazy-fast engineer repair was HOT!

All you said finds me in total agreement, and I look forward your story.