Vulcan Arc

[WarpGirl]

I looked for a thread last night but didn't find one. And since on a lot of threads this stuff comes up I thought it might be nice to have one. I FINALLY saw the whole arc last night. Guess what, I liked it. Don't adjust your screens you've read that correctly. I really thought it was rather good, considering the basic standard of quality for Enterprise. It was visually quite stunning. Some of the profomances were incredibly well done: CT, (he's never had a bad one, even with insipid dialog) Joanna Cassidy, was wonderful. The guy who played Soval, (I can never remember his name pathetic I know.) was almost exquisite. But Jeffery Combes almost stole the show. The actor who played Surak captured him the way I always thought he would be. Not a cold stone, but a genuinely peaceful man, full of compassion and empathy for all people. Very Ghandi, but if I'm not mistaken he was supposed to me modeled after Buddah and Ghandi. The actor did this extremely well. Oh and I'm firmly in the "I like Koss camp!" He willingly and voluntarily let T'Pol out of that sham of a marriage, and was KIND to her. He's a good guy, he needs a nice artist to settle down with.

However, you all know me so you know I have plenty to complain about. Biggest peeve, the way T'Pol was once again a doubting Thomas and third wheel. Come on, the character that was going to be affected by all this was her! Yet she once again had to be upstaged by Archer, and she was a bit bratty IMHO. But we already know the writers have precious little respect for her character. Yes make her doubtful, even resentful! But did she have to whine like a six year old, and disrespect her mother?

I won't get into "Super Archer" Enterprise should have been called "The Adventures of Jonathan Archer, and The Five Sidekicks" hey if it was like a "Captain Proton" thing I'd find it hailarious. Suffice it to say once again he failed to impress me.

V'Las was also disappointing. It was so obvious that he was Romulan that I thought the other members of the VHC looked like incompetant fools. Just gawking and being led around like ducklings. If V'Las had been cool and collected and arguing his decisions in a logical manner (dare I say it, like Palpatine) it would have made the episode so much better/ It was too obvious he was a villian.

T'Pau, OMG where do I start? Oh yeah she's a BABY! She's just way too young, and she was a heck of a lot like Archer. They're almost bookends, that frightened me. I liked the actress, And I think she tried to give her part life, but badly written. Does nobody check the prior characterizations, before they re-write classic characters?

One last thing, why put T'Les in it and only give her two big parts? One where daughter dearest tells her that she wants nothing to do with her, and one where she dies! That was stupid an a waste of a compelling character and a wonderful actress.

Still on the whole I thought they did better than usual. I must admit I love the fanfic about this time much more, but I managed not to scream or throw things at the TV. Which is a record, 3 eps in a row.

This wasn't supposed to be an episode review. Sorry KTR if it sounds like one. Well hopefull we'll all get to talking now.

[Alelou]

Good God, I think we finally agree on something, overall.

I put down T'Pol's excessive crankiness to having to put up with Super!Archer. He really is just about unbearable in this thing. Plus she's still really pissed about that wedding. She's not exactly at her most peaceful or open-minded and I didn't mind that.

I didn't think T'Pau was that far off. She's a bigot in this one and she's a bigot later. I could see where fiery revolutionary who lands in the seat of power young turns into pompous lady being carried around in a chair and intoning formal Vulcan. The lack of accent is inexplicable, though.

And yes, V'Las was way too emotional. However, it seems to me they played ALL Vulcans too emotionally in Enterprise, perhaps because they decided early on that these were pre-Kirshara Vulcans. (Either that or Manny Coto had watched the series up to then and thought, oh damn, I need to fix this. Who knows.)

(At the risk of annoying you with a movie mention, I really liked Sarek's explanation for Vulcan emotions in the movie.)

[WarpGirl]

I knew there was something we could see eye-to-eye on! You don't annoy me mentioning the movie, I just have no idea what you're talking about. I don't mind T'Pol being upset about this whole thing. After all her mother joined a cult! And that meant she got married for nothing, yeah I'd be ticked off too no doubt. Although my mother would have stopped the wedding when she saw that the guy really loved me, if he wouldn't do it himself. That's not a human thing it's a mom thing. Anyway, I wanted T'Pol to argue her beliefs logically. I know I keep hoping for the impossible. Maybe if there had been some discorse about the crises of faith here I could've accepted things better. But it was all vague and underdeveloped, typical Enterprise. T'Pau was just too young for her role in this story, yeah I get the whole premise of it being a sweeping change of the young on an old corrupt govt. (it was like a comentary on this year's election) But they didn't have to make her THAT young. It just didn't ring true to me.

[evcake]

[quote="WarpGirl"] Oh and I'm firmly in the "I like Koss camp!" He willingly and voluntarily let T'Pol out of that sham of a marriage, and was KIND to her. He's a good guy, he needs a nice artist to settle down with. [quote]

I agree.

I think there's more than one story where he marries Lizzie (Not Dead, of course.)

[WarpGirl]

I think Kuvak was his father, they sure looked alike. I think it would have been nice for T'Pol to say, "Koss I know I hated this whole marriage but it wasn't personal either time I tried to get out of it. We never seemed compatible, but you are a decent man and you have my respect." But of course Vulcans of Enterprise era also lost courtesy as well as logic.

[evcake]

Now, why do I think Kuvak is Kov's father? I think all we learn in Fusion is that Kov's father is on the High Council.

[WarpGirl]

Actually it was "Breaking the Ice" I know because I haven't seen "Fusion" yet. Besides like I said Kuvak looks a lot like Koss. I wish I could put side to side pics of them up. Oh well, it makes sense to me.

[Escriba]

What can I say? This is the arc when I literally shouted to the tv screen "T'Pol, kill them all!" You know, after this three episodes I was a total fan of the poor girl. I mean, I always wondered why T'Pol was so passive-agressive and why she was always seeking to be galactically miserable (her characterization this way was very constant.) But after knowing her mother (and Koss), I could completely understand. When your loved ones treat you like they give a shit about you and you were five years old, it can disturb you a little.

And the Vulcan arc just make it worse. Let's see...

KOSS: Hi, hon. I'm here with irritating and unwanted gestures of affection and puppy eyes, after blackmailing you and force you --because I didn't have enough personality and backbone to do otherwise-- to marry me, just to tell you that... ha! This is funny! Your mother is part of a dangerous fanatical cult. Congratulations!
T'POL: That's all?
KOSS: Mmmm... Oh, yes, take this family heirloom that you've never seen. Want a quickie?
T'POL: No.

So she has to go to Vulcan with Super!Archer, who knows nothing about Surak (although T'Pol gave him a book of him... two years ago!), knows nothing about Vulcan phisiology (helloooo... Vulcans have evolved there!), but manages to criticize Vulcan pets. She encounters a Vulcan Syrranite that preaches a lot and slams her (because belittling T'Pol is a national sport on Vulcan.) He dies (we open the champagne) and T'Pol reaches the Syrranites at last. And her mommy. And her mommy's reaction is memorable:

T'LES: Oh, don't put that face. Yes, I know I ruined your life for, you know, nothing, without consulting you at all, since I treat you like you're five, but do you want to join our little gang?
T'POL: Your gang is a fanatical and terrorist group.
T'LES: Oh, that's not true. We would never kill anybody, we just ruin people's life, but that's absolutely fair.
T'POL: Oh, paint me sceptic. Because I'd want to believe you, but I find it difficult after you lied to me so blatantly when you told me you didn't take restricted data from the Academy archives.
T'LES: Crybaby.

Then we discover that Super!Archer has SuperIrish!Surak's katra inside. Yeah... So T'Pau decides to perform some obscure and very dangerous Vucan procedure, even against his will, to extract it. T'Les (reluctlantly, that's true) agrees, because T'Pau is her lesbian lover, after all. I mean, it's obvious. It's that or T'Pau is the daughter T'Les always wanted and never had. Anyway, the Vulcan mojo doesn't work, of course, and while T'Pol is taking care of Archer (although she shouldn't, because he's quite an ass), T'Les comes to talk to her.

T'LES: I don't know why you're so angry. It's totally un-Vulcan.
T'POL: Maybe because you forced somebody to go through a mind meld. Which is very similar to a mind rape. A concept I loathe since I went through one. You know, the mere memory makes me retch.
T'LES: You never told me.
T'POL: Of course not! We are not even remotely close and you never ask me how I feel or how I'm doing!
T'LES: You're too emotional. Besides, the mind meld was necessary. We say it was necessary and that makes it right, because we're right and anything we do is right.
T'POL: You know what, Mace Windu? I don't want to talk to you again.

So... Super!Archer discover where the Kir'shara is, because SuperIrish!Surak never told anybody except him where it was. Oh, the sly dog. They recover the old artifact, but when they return the camp is destroyed and Mommy!T'Les is dying. Dying, but not dead, so she has energy enough to talk.

T'LES: Let me tell you, while I have stil my breath, that everything is your fault. Yes, because if you were a good daughter, I wouldn't come here to try to cure you. But you're too emotional, so I had to try to lead you toward the right path and when that didn't work, I came here to find a solution to your desire to have a personality. And now the High Command has bombed this place and I'm dying. Have I told you that's your fault?
T'POL: Yes, Anakin Skywalker.
T'LES: Good. Now that I've planted the seed of eternal guilt in you, let's end more cheerfully. I'm proud of you.
T'POL: (flabbergasted) Really?
T'LES: Yes, I know I've never shown you it. In fact, the 90% of our interaction was based in arguing, but in the deepest part of my katra, I was proud. I simply picked on you in public for my image's shake. OK, now I've said what I wanted, I can die in peace. But remember, this is all your fault.

After that, the situation just worsens. T'Pau takes the opportunity to remind T'Pol that she had a better relationship with T'Les than her own daughter. But that's understable, T'Pau was her lover. And later, Super!Archer tells T'Pol how to be a proper Vulcan!

I don't know how she didn't shoot them to death.

Anyway, after all of this ends. T'Pol receives the lovely visit of the lovely Koss again.

KOSS: You know, I'll end our marriage. Yes, now that your mother is dead, I have no argument to force you. I know this would be the perfect moment to tell you that, in fact, my parents or myself -pick an option- are/am Syrranite(s) and that the marriage thing was a plan to make you safe. Although nobody told you anything because we treat you like a five years old child and telling you this would give you the opportunity to, for Surak's shake, choose. But I won't tell you anything, and I'm going to give you the impression that I'm a dense and cruel blackmailer (although it's impossible to be cruel being dense) because that's how I am. I'm going to act as if I give a shit about the entire situation, and you, especifically. That would be perfect. Oh, yes. Goodbye!

I'm not surprised that T'Pol had to reconsider all her life and belief system in "Daedalus".

Sorry, I'm cranky today

[Alelou]

LOL. You crack me up, Escriba.

[Aquarius]

O...M...G... I love you, Escriba. Especially for this:

KOSS: Hi, hon. I'm here with irritating and unwanted gestures of affection and puppy eyes, after blackmailing you and force you --because I didn't have enough personality and backbone to do otherwise-- to marry me, just to tell you that... ha! This is funny! Your mother is part of a dangerous fanatical cult. Congratulations!
T'POL: That's all?
KOSS: Mmmm... Oh, yes, take this family heirloom that you've never seen. Want a quickie?
T'POL: No.

And for Mace Windu. And Anakin Skywalker.



Oh, yes. I've definitely started the morning right.

[WarpGirl]

Aquarius you've lost me. Escriba, I know I've been harsh about certain things but DANG! Well I wanted people to talk. I'm not saying your position doesn't have merit. But I'd like to think the whole situation was slightly more complicated than that. I didn't like how they made T'Les a Syrranite after the wedding. That was trite. But come on, after seeing the Evil V'Las, and the incompetant Nirak of the VHC, I think a Reveloution is an order. As for Syrran he wasn't as bad as I feared. Yes a little condesending, but sometimes older people can be that way with the young. Especially when the young are being particularly stubborn about something they know nothing about. Although the concept of a katra was something before Surak, that was just stupid. Also part of the reason I think T'Pau is WAY too young is because T'Les does cave to her too easily. I feel kind of bad for Koss though, he really was nice to T'Pol. But I agree about Super! Archer.

[Alelou]

Escriba and I will never agree on Koss or T'Les, but I love her version for its sheer entertainment value.

[WarpGirl]

It was pretty extreme, and good for a chuckle. But honestly after that I have to concede to Elessar when he told me "I'm not that extreme." I'm really not. Dang, just have to work harder. I'll catch up Escriba just you wait.

[Escriba]

Oh, but that's what sarcasm has: you can consider things as simply as you want

Sorry, I've said I was cranky today. And when I'm cranky I'm sarcastic. In fact, I'm the president of Sarcastic People Sans Frontières right now. My sarcasm is a bad, bad trait in me and I try to suppress it as much as I can, because it knows not enemies nor friends. It's a widowmaker!

But a little more seriously, there is no excuse for everybody to treat T'Pol as if she was five. If somebody would have had the consideration of telling her what was happening (and I'm not saying in "Home" just at the beginning of "The Forge" would suffice), maybe it would have made things slightly easier. But nooo...

And c'mon, the entire argument of "forcing Archer to go through the ritual is acceptable and is very different to the corrupted High Command's techniques" is totally Mace Windu! In fact, I find it interesting, if the writers had decided to tell us the very common and realistic story of a real fanatical group against a corrupted Government and the dangers of getting rid of a dictatorship just to put a theocracy. Although I understand these are Vulcans and everything is different with Vulcans. It's more like Interesting Times by Terry Pratchett

[WarpGirl]

Please, Please, Please don't bring Mace Windu into this. I have absolutely nothing but contempt and a severe hatred for that man. And as a total light side Jedi, I am totally aware that it can lead to the dark side. BUT He's a sociopath! UG Mace Windu the worst of the Jedi. Anyway I can't say I disagree with the Syrannites, but that doesn't mean I'd consider T'Pau a pleasent person. Archer wanted to get Surak out of his head anyway, the threat was unecessary and was maily there to give T'Pol more angst. As if she didn't have enough. But hey I've always hated what the B's did to her character.