Vulcan Arc

[honeybee]

Thanks for the insight, TW. I mean, obviously, we suspend disbelief but yes - it would be a bad idea to have the chief engineer the XO - since one can assume during a crisis he would be busy/be needed in engineering.

[WarpGirl]

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the ChEng has never been the First Officer in Trek... The chain of command TOS: was Kirk, Spock, Sulu, Checkov, Uhura, Scotty. In TNG: Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, Troi, Bev, Geordie. DS9: I really do not know. VOY: Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, Tom, Harry, B'Elanna. ChEng is last. At least as far as I can remember, sorry I'm getting really sick tonight.

[Rigil Kent]

However, some clerks wore a Combat Infantrymans Badge because they had some training

I think you mean the Expert Infantyman Badge. There's a test you take to earn that. The CIB is awarded for actually participating in combat in an infantry unit.

Yeah, I had both. And unless the clerk in question was 11 series (Infantry) or had been when they earned said badge, then they weren't allowed to wear that thing. Reminds me of this female MP I encountered following the end of the ground offensive in Desert Storm who inexplicably thought she could wear a CIB because she was in a firefight. That's the reason they created that new combat badge for people who weren't infantry (CIB) or combat medics (combat field medical badge, CFMB.)

Only in Star Trek would the chief engineer also be the XO.

Or the CMO commanding. Ever. I'm pretty sure if the situation got really bad, the chain of command would fall to chiefs before the doc was even considered. For that matter, only in Trek does it make sense for the XO to have a job above and beyond being XO...

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the ChEng has never been the First Officer in Trek... The chain of command TOS: was Kirk, Spock, Sulu, Checkov, Uhura, Scotty.

Wrong. Scotty was #3, right behind Spock. He assumed command numerous times and held, I think, the same rank as Spock. He may have been one grade lower.

In TNG: Picard, Riker, Data, Worf, Troi, Bev, Geordie.

Again, I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Geordie comes well before either Troi or Crusher, neither of whom should have been a line officer in any fashion. I think it was Picard, Riker, Data, LaForge, then Worf.

DS9: I really do not know.

Fluctuates. Aboard DS9, it was Sisko, the Bajoran chick whose name is utterly escaping me for some reason, then Worf and Dax (or maybe the other way around.) Aboard the Defiant, it was Sisko, then Worf/Dax (again, not sure which.)

VOY: Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, Tom, Harry, B'Elanna.

Doesn't Torres outrank Kim? And then later, she outranks Paris too when he gets demoted. So she should be higher up the food chain.

[honeybee]

quote]For that matter, only in Trek does it make sense for the XO to have a job above and beyond being XO...[/quote]

This where dramatic purposes/streamlining purposes trump reality. I have heard complaints that in TNG - Riker seemed to have nothing to do unless Picard wasn't there. Okay, he had paperwork and admin duties, but him filling out reports after that battle with the Borg doesn't make for good drama.

Whether in profic or fanfic, I do appreciate when the writers weave mundane duties like admin work into the story. Hell, Aquarius managed to make an entire epistolary smut story about quartermaster requisitions. Quartermaster being an incorrect term as well, but we can always assume that in the future terms evolved. Think about language 150 years ago - words/roles did mean different things.

Again, I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Geordie comes well before either Troi or Crusher, neither of whom should have been a line officer in any fashion. I think it was Picard, Riker, Data, LaForge, then Worf.

There was an episode where Troi gets qualified to command the ship, and it was late in the series. The implication was that she'd rarely ever be in charge - I think they show her taking a graveyard shift in the captain's chair at the end of the episode - but that being able to do so was something that helped advance your career. I would imagine the doctor or counselor would have a command rank for use only in very specific and very bad situations - such as the bridge being blown off the ship and someone has to be in charge or if everyone was captured and the Klingons executed all the combat personnel. They might leave a doctor or counselor alive.

Although we will hopefully never, ever need it, there is a Presidential succession ranking that goes President, Vice President, Speaker of the House, President Pro Temp of the Senate and then through the cabinet. It isn't set in stone, however, because apparently Truman rejiggered the order so that the President couldn't appoint his own successor the way FDR did with him. What's interesting to me (and relevant to this conversation) is that the cabinet officers don't succeed in order of job description appropriate to a big crisis but rather order in which their position was created. That means the Secretary of Homeland Security would get the job last, with Ag secretaries and Education secretaries succeeding before her. The BSG reboot gave us President Rosalind, who was the Secretary of Education. I think the Secretary of Education also became president in the cold war/world war III novel Alas, Babylon and I always figured that BSG was inspired by that book.

The UK also has a list of royal succession for the throne that goes into the thousands. I think you can find out your rank if you have any connection to the royal family at all.

[WarpGirl]

About the VOY question, In one of my favorite episodes Displaced Tom and B'Elanna have an arguement about their ranks, she asserts that...

"On your feet, that's an order!"
"You can't give me orders, we're the same rank."
"I'm a bridge officer, and I have seniority."
"Yeah, by about two days!"

So I was guessing that at some point in Starfleet's progression Bridge officers would get command first, and when all the bridge officers were gone ChEng got it. That and there is the little fact B'Elanna never ever commanded VOY, not even a delta shift. Harry did, and Tom did a couple of times. I totally admit to being wrong though. It was very late when I wrote the post and I am getting so sick, so please no virtual rotten tomatoes. I didn't intend to put the wrong info out there.

One question why did Troi's test involve killing Geordie if he would get command first? Because if it was just an emotional thing they could have used Geordie's second in command (?) and her reaction would be simular. She's an empath.

[Silverbullet]

Rigel different Era different war. In WWII infantrymen wore the Combat infrantrymans badge as it gave them Combat pay. clerks who might be pressed into the line were trained as Infantrymen first and clerks later. so they could wear the CIB but didn't fight. Medics did not have a badge as they were non combatants. by Geneva Convention. they could not carry a weapon or fight. So they did not receive extra pay. This actually PO's the infantrymen. The Medic quite often had to crawl out in to the open to tend to a wounded man and bring him back to thier lines. Very dangerous. The Geneva Convention said that Medics could ot be killed so the Medics only defense was the Red Cross on his helmet. the infantryman loved the Medics because being wounded out in the open and seeing that medic appearing to help was like seeing an Angel to them. they lobbied to get the extra pay for the Medics. Anyway, the CIB was awarded to any one who had gone through Infantrymans training. Not like in todays military where there are different badges and the Medics have one too.

Bill Mauldin (an Army Cartoonist who drew the characters "willie and Joe" much beloved by the troops drew a cartoon of a Medic, Helmet dented, fatigues torn, with a three day old stubble on his face, standing in front of a clean, shaven Clerk whohad a DIB saying to the medic you don't get extra pay because you don't fight.