"The Abomination"

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Well, T'Pol is dressed as she is for two beautiful things called Ms Fanservice (or simply fanservice) and Stripperiffic.

Damn you for pointing me to that website. I ended up spending hours there clicking through tons of stuff and exhausting my browser with a gazillion tabs...

I know I shouldn't have clicked because I've been to tvtropes.com before!

ETA: It's even a trope for this. TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life

[WarpGirl]

OK did anyone else feel slightly creeped out when "Chef" called Trip a "lifetime member of the Jonathan Archer fanclub? Here's my reasoning, from "Cogenitor" onward what did Archer do to deserve that distinction as a friend? He never took even one moment to console Trip after Lizzy's death. He repremanded him for disagreeing with command decisions, even when the man followed orders. And he offered no comfort when Baby Elizabeth died. How is this a prerequisite for a fanclub?

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, aren't you a lifetime member of the Archer Fanclub?

I mean it is SUPER ARCHER!!

Bet T-Pol is(n't)

As for me? Not this side of Hell.

[WarpGirl]

Now you're just being snarky I think I've made my feelings about the "Captain" very clear. Oh well, Will was cute. But even he and Deanna were writen OOC in places.

[Silverbullet]

Warpgirl, Just Kidding. Honest. I know how you feel about him.

Just a clumsy attempt at a llittle humor.

[WarpGirl]

[Aquarius]

Now like I said I don't particularly mind the catsuits, yeah I'm a bit of a feminist, but I get the point of making the characters appear as attractively as possible. What I didn't like was how often EVERYONE stripped down to underware or nothing at all. Yeah I'm including the men in this too, and I like the skivvies as much as the next girl. But it was so blantantly gratuitous that it irritated me to no end. It was so rare, on the others series that when it happened you were like "oooh so that's what you look like under that prim and proper uniform." It was a treat, and it was respectful. Not so on ENT it was force fed and EVERYONE was sort of displayed like a piece of meat. I didn't appreciate it as a human being, let alone a woman. And of course T'Pol was the most stripped by virtue of her figure. Hey I think Hoshi is just as attractive as T'Pol, in some ways more so because of the stupid Vulcan wigs. The whole thing irritates me. But I said it bugs me about EVERYONE, so I better not hear that I'm being an unreasonable feminist. <looks warily at some odd men>

Not that this is anything like being in military service, but...due to personal experience, the stripping down thing didn't bother me so much. In band, we often had to get changed on a bus, and you just had to be big boys and girls and not stare and just handle it. When I was doing my part-time modeling, I also had to get undressed in front of all sorts of people--and that was before having my picture taken or getting on a runway. For me, it's just a reality that comes with being in a profession/organization where you work closely with others and changes of clothes are involved. Ask anyone who's been in basic training how often they've seen others in their unit in their underwear or naked; it probably happens more often than you think.

[WarpGirl]

True, God knows you strip down often enough for Drs. Well I do, because I have more things wrong with me than should be possible for a 25 year old. But did it have to be every other episode? Like I said I preferred it when it was an actual treat instead of, "Oh you're naked AGAIN!" It took the fun out of it for me.

[Aquarius]

I'm sure that's a bit of an exaggeration. Besides, that's the kind of thing you only notice when seeing episodes in fairly rapid succession, like daily in reruns, vs. weekly in first-run when you've had several days in between episodes to let things settle. Also remember, several days to several weeks are passing between episodes for the characters, so while for you, the last time you saw a character in his or her underwear might've been a day ago (or even an hour ago if you're watching a mini marathon or a dvd), it might've been like six weeks for the character. So I guess I'm just saying this to keep it in perspective. It really isn't that big of a deal. You see more in the underwear section of the JC Penney catalog, I'm sure.

Furthermore, I just have to say that if Enterprise were being made now, I'd probably be lobbying for MORE underwear episodes, especially in the case of certain male actors--certainly not LESS of them!

[Alelou]

Hear, hear!

[WarpGirl]

You know I kind of forgot that I watch ENT every day and 4 times on Tuesday. Hey I'm not saying that you're wrong, it's just not my taste. And I AM one of those annoying people who like ST the "old way" I don't appologize for that one. And I do like eye-candy. At least the men were objectified too so that's one tradition broken that I won't complain about.

[Silverbullet]

I have heard it said, read it and even said it myself. The human body is god's greatest creation.

Look at Michleangelo's David, the discus thrower, the statue of Poisden. the Venus De Milo, Numerous other sculptures of the female form and countless paintings.

they are a celebration. Noting gross abut them at all.

so, You see very attractive male and females in ther underwear. Enjoy.

[WarpGirl]

Agreed. Like I said the freaquency was annoying to me, but the concept I don't have a problem with.

[Aquarius]

Well, again I don't think the "frequency" would be such an issue if you'd seen all the episodes as aired and not in such rapid succession. On TNG my mom and I noticed that Riker says "What the hell?" a lot that way, too--went right by me when episodes were first-run and airing only weekly.

In terms of the "old way", I'd rather not go back to the studio/network Standards and Practices that said that while you can show cleavage almost all the way down to the nipple, you can't show a woman's belly button. If you can show people in bathing suits on TV, underwear is certainly no big deal. In fact, a lot of bathing suits are far more revealing than those Starfleet Blues. We're not exactly talking Speedos and thongs here.

[WarpGirl]

I didn't mean it like that. But you're probably right I mean I watch it everyday and 4 times on Tuesday. And I really don't think the skivvies are completely inmodest, although, I think T'Pol and Hoshi topless was pushing it.