Vulcan Modesty

[Asso]

Well said.

[Alelou]

She's also near-nude in the decon chamber with Malcolm and Hoshi in that Klingon episode from first season.

But as far as the scene with Trip, maybe it was just cold on that set...?

LOL. Personally I enjoy the rather obvious signs of male arousal in that scene. (And I'm amazed they didn't edit it out.)

Maybe Vulcans, like Humans, vary a lot individually and culturally in their personal attitudes towards nudity. You can't generalize about any group (though some cultures clearly have more rigid attitudes about it than others). And people trained for space travel would presumably learn to deal with nudity more than someone who's led a sheltered life within tradition at home.

[Rigil Kent]

She's also near-nude in the decon chamber with Malcolm and Hoshi in that Klingon episode from first season.

Plus, there were the numerous episodes with her in her underwear (the one where Reed was possessed by the alien wisps, or when Archer showed up in her cabin at the end of season 1), not to mention "Bounty." Given that they tested T'Pol against all of the male characters except poor Travis, I don't think its accurate to say she was only "partially" nude around Trip. Granted, she was in states of undress more frequently around him than anyone else...

Maybe Vulcans, like Humans, vary a lot individually and culturally in their personal attitudes towards nudity. You can't generalize about any group (though some cultures clearly have more rigid attitudes about it than others). And people trained for space travel would presumably learn to deal with nudity more than someone who's led a sheltered life within tradition at home.

Sooth. This is especially true with T'Pol who was, by every stretch, something of an aberration among the Vulcans of her time.

[Silverbullet]

In that scene in Sickbay after they got her off the vulcan ship Seyla (sp) where she was driven half nuts by the TD stuff. They had her naked under the sheet while she was on the bio bed. Obviously they had to take her clothes off as they were soaked in that TD. Did Archer help Phlox undress her? When she sat up her back was bare down to her waist she held the sheet up in front of her. She didn't seem to be shocked that she was naked under the sheet or that Plox and possibily Archer had undressed her.

[Kotik]

@Silverbullet

I don't think, that Phlox would anyone but medical staff have helping him to undress a crew member, And that she holds up the sheet for cover doesn't really show that she's indifferent to being exposed. On the contrary, I think. And besides, I've yet to find a hospital, where they put you in the bed naked. usually the minimum they give you is one of them surgery shirt jobs. So it was again just shameless titilation that left a gaping plothole.

[Silverbullet]

Kotik, you are right it was shamless titilation on the part of TPTB. But still Phlox never seemed to have any medicl helpers in the series so Archer would seem to be the one to help him udress T'Pol. Sheet held up would be for the TV guidlines about semi of full Nudity in Prime time. I always wondered what Jolenes feelings on baring her Breasts would be if if were acceptable on the series. She is a Model and did make a film where she was Bare Breasted.

[pdsldl]

I agree with Kotik that Phlox would never compromise his ethics or the dignity of his patient by allowing non medical male personnel to undress T'Pol. If he needed assistance I'm sure he could call on one or two of the female crew to help him undress and perhaps put her in the shower to be sure they got all the TD off her body. And being so out of it I doubt she was concerned about being nude under the sheet and as Phlox obviously hadn't sedated her it might have been more trouble than it was worth to get her dressed at that point.

[panyasan]

Kotik, you are right it was shamless titilation on the part of TPTB. But still Phlox never seemed to have any medicl helpers in the series so Archer would seem to be the one to help him udress T'Pol.

I don't see any need for Archer to assist Phlox with a medical procedure or why you think he would do so. It's not the captains business and I think Archer has a little more dignity (weird dream of Archer aside) then volutering to undress his sick Vulcan XO. Phlox has a female assistent, called Liz Cutler. He could have called her.

[panyasan]

Summary: There's no scene during with partial or complete nudity that contains any character but Trip (excluding Archer sick fantasy in ANIS), so I suppose that Trip is the only other person that T'Pol is comfortable with when nude, and we all know why

Great lines!
Question: didn't she wear her shirt and underwear in the decon scene with Malcolm and Hoshi? I wouldn't call that near-nude (she wasn't topless, was she?) and the kind of clothing they used in decon. Also there wasn't any sexual tension in the scene - but there was in the decon scene with Trip. The context of the scene can make it sensual or not.
BTW, there is a expression in my own language which says that "too much nakedness kills the desire". It means suggestion can be more sensual then seeing everything.

[Kotik]

Actually he had Crewman Cutler, but I think she was already dead at that point.

I think we need to get away from the on-screen play here. TPTB wanted a hot babe that flashed her two logical arguments once in a while (at least vaguely).

For me it doesn't add up that a race that considers revealing their age intimate, would have no problem with revealing their bare body. As there is no established fact in canon, we're free to speculate and can go with our own ideas. As my stories are AU anyways, I'm going with the fact that Vulcans are scared to be that exposed.

In fact the whole chapter 10 of "Trip Of A Lifetime" revolves around this topic, as TnT and their Vulcan-leader side-kick are confronted with a rather *um* special mission - Wedding guest on Betazed. T'was a rather funny coincidence that this thread came up, while I was working on it

[Alelou]

Actually I just noticed in either "Anomaly" or "Extinction" that Phlox made reference to Crewman Cutler breaking her leg or arm (apparently I didn't notice very specifically). I was a little surprised since the actress had died before season two, hadn't she? So I guess she's in the Expanse with them, then. Presumably not for long since we never see her in all those scenes with people being treated in sickbay.

I've never liked how nude those patients in sickbay often seem to be -- in "Similitude" Trip also appears to be nude under his sheet. It looks like very poor care in maintaining the patient's body temp or modesty.

However, I also have little doubt that in a medical emergency Archer could serve to help undress a crewman just as effectively as anyone else. But I don't think "Impulse" would have represented an emergency.

[Silverbullet]

Not sure about Archer bowing out of undressing T'Pol. In Sim he says he has not decided whether or not to make the clone. In R/L only the CMO (Phlox in this case) is in charge of Sickbay and makes dianosis and prescribes treatment including all proccedures. The CO not being a Doctor or having a Medical Degree cannot intrude in to the operations of Sick Bay. However, TPTB never let R/L interfere with the Enterprise Series. Archer very well may have helped Phlox to undress T'Pol insisting he was CO. I remember Archer saying once "MY Sickbay." Long History of regulations and traditions regarding who runs the Medical units. It is always the CMO regardless of the Military service.

[panyasan]

I know Archer can be a prick (is that the correct word), but I just don't see him jump to the chance to undress T'Pol. I give him a little more credit that saying "I am the captain. So I help you undress T'Pol."

[Silverbullet]

You underestimate him. He did have that Dream in ANIS where he dreamed T'Pol took of fher shirt before kissing him. He may have just been curious about the Vulcan female form and now close it is to a Human. Not having Trip's experience.

[Rigil Kent]

Dude, you need to let go of this insane anti-Archer vitriol. So he had a dream. So what? At the time, he was operating on no sleep, ultra stress, and had Phlox screwing with his head. He can't be blamed for something his subconscious does. Why don't you freak out over Reed's dream about her?

Besides, wouldn't he be in decon along with the rest of the people exposed to trellium d when that's taking place? I mean, I'm not a doctor, but I'd think it would be logical to keep T'Pol isolated from those people until both she & they are clean of the compound, especially since its having such a deleterious effect on her.

I agree with panyasan; yeah, Archer could be written as a boob, but he isn't that much of a jackass.