T'Pol's Un-Vulcan Like Behavior

[WarpGirl]

ALELOU I meant Sarek's pattern of behavior. If the B's always intented for the Vulcan govt. to be corrupt modeling T'Pol after Sarek she would have still been 'unique' and able to defy the VHC. I'm not saying give her Sarek's personality and intrests just have her behave as he would. At least that's how I write her. Sarek is my gold standard Vulcan.

Silverbullet I know her actions were pre-meditated but they weren't rational. That was Pa'nar and TD.

[Asso]

My original point was to discuss how and why T'Pol was a different, open-minded, curious and rebellious Vulcan - and that in turn led her to evolve and change into a very different person by the end of the series.

I like T'Pol very much.

BTW - MOST of the Vulcans are condescending to the Humans on Enterprise. T'Pol starts off that way - becomes less so after she gets to know and like the humans (one in particular ).

When she returns home her mother comments on how much she changes and was picking up bad habits from the humans.

I think it might be time for this topic to die - I think I've been misunderstood.

I agree with you with regard to every point. And I understand you.

[WarpGirl]

I get the point as well but I'm just saying that T'Pol really isn't a rebellous Vulcan. The writers on ENT were trying to make a new point by portraying Vulcans as they were in ENT. And yes T'Pol did do some pretty illogical things with the TD. But as a whole she's not really a rebel. She's an individual, AS ALL Vulcans are. I guess I don't see the need to label her as a Mavrick Revolutional person. She's a woman a Vulcan woman.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

Bond: T-Pol said "It has been long believed that when a Vulcan mates a Physic bond is formed. When she seduced Trip she should have known this as it was probably vulcan lore that hse had learned on vulcan. That being the case she knew that she would be starting a Bond with him and that it would be a lifetime bond. She was in effect binding him to her for life and knew it.

If she on some level actually believed in this mysterious "psychic bond" (that was prohibited during that time) I don't think she even suspected it would be possible to form such a bond with a member of a different species. That's why she was so surprised when she experienced the "white space" thingy with Trip.

[Asso]

As I said elsewhere, I don't claim to explain everything with my brain.
I think this is the cause because of which I love T'Pol.
She is unique, that's my thought.
So, I agree with Aikiweezie.
No offense, but sometimes it's better to follow our heart.
That said, I prefer - sweetly and placidly - to end.

[WarpGirl]

Yes sir KTR! You said it. And YES I believe T'Pol displayed some very UnVulcan behavior. But the list presented here isn't accurate. Except for the TD. But I'm not rehashing that.

[Silverbullet]

KTR how could it be prohibited if it was a nuraly occuring thing? "it has been long believed that when a vulcan mates that a Physic bond occurs." That sounds like something that cannot be helped. You mate a bond happens. Also I believe that vulcans live together for a year after the bonding ceremony so they can do just that: form a bond. So how could it be illegal.

I will agree that T-Pol had no reason to believe that a bond could be formed between a vulcan and a Human but then she had no reason not to think that a bond was possible. Since her seduction of Trip was in response to the threat of Cole it was a roll of the dice. giving him a night of Loving might turn his head enough to forget cole or a bond might be formed she couldn't lose if either or both worked.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

BTW please excuse my grammer and spelling I am Dyslexic. I read very well but cannot absorb Grammer and I get letters transposed often.

[Kevin Thomas Riley]

^ T'Pol spoke of the bond (in Bound) as if it was something like a myth. Given that the government at the time (well, it had just been overthrown) had forbidden mind melds it's obvious that forming psychic bonds would have been forbidden too. That it happened anyway to some Vulcan pairs is another thing, since it is, as you say, a naturally occurring thing. They probably did not speak of it openly, which is what I think T'Les and T'Pol's father did.

In my view the "one year rule" is a holdover from earlier times when the function was to help facilitate a mating bond. Now it's just a custom, much like the child betrothals in the ENT-era weren't psychic either. Or the Vulcan weddings.

After the Vulcan reformation and the discovery of the Kir'Shara that will obviously change. It will no longer be illegal to mind meld or form psychic mating bonds.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[WarpGirl]

I don't know KTR, while I agree that the corrupt government (infiltrated by the Romulans) was trying to weaken Vulcan by surpressing most of their telepathic abilities and heritage in general, I think it would have been impossible to make a formal declaration out-lawing mating bonds. You can out-law mind melds, because while a Vulcan naturally has the ability they can choose not to use it. A mating bond is different, because it's a physiological response. While I'm sure the govt. took steps to try and weaken ALL telepathic abilites in Vulcans they can't stop a natural biological function from occuring. Do I think all the other taboos weakened most bonds? Yes. That's probably why T'Pol was so shocked when she formed one with a non-telepathic human. On the whole I'll bet the mating bonds had been weakening for years, and people who were secretly keeping the old ways weren't about to advertise that their own bonds were strong. T'Pol wouldn't know this so she was shocked.

But all of this proves my main point, you can't judge T'Pol's behavior as "Standard" based on these corrupt teachings. So yeah from seasons 1-3 she was by no means a "proper Vulcan" but by season 4 she was getting the hang of it. In fact, during seasons 1-3 the only time she was behaving like a "proper Vulcan" was when she was defying the VHC. Her emotionalism, and assimilating into humanity was not proper behavior. But again, the writers forgot what a true "proper Vulcan" was. Soval finally began showing it in season 4. But by then it was too late.

[Alelou]

And I'd definitely stick with KTR's story on this one, too. It best fits what we see on screen.

[WarpGirl]

Well he is very good at this isn't he.

[pookha]

you might get a very mild form of the mating bond with out all the telapathic ability on line but to get a true full fledge bond i suspect from what little we saw the ability to meld plays a part.

we got some hints in the vulcan trilogy that something may be going on between trip and tpol.. an awareness.

but during this time period until tpol is cured things might not have been able to progress.

then tpol performing her own meld may have finished turning on sections of her vulcan mind.

it is only after she does a meld that the white space appears.

as far as tpol being a bit of a rebel..
frankly almost all of the female vulcans we have seen through trek dont fit into the mold of typical vulcans that some have.

from vlaris to the vulcan terrorist in tng to the vulcan arms dealer in tng.

even tpau when she was younger.

[WarpGirl]

Well to be fair there wasn't any female Vulcan leads in ST at all before T'Pol. Unless you count Saavik, and supposedly she's half Romulan. Sometimes I think she out Vulcaned just about everyone. Wasn't there a Vulcan Dr. that worked with Beverly in Sickbay on TNG. She seemed pretty "normal" I hate that word. Tuvok's wife T'Pel was also a very Vulcan. See this is what I mean by saying we can't call any Vulcan on ENT a "proper Vulcan" before the discovery of the Kir'Shara. Because none of them were. Good points about the mating bond.

[Aikiweezie]

See this is what I mean by saying we can't call any Vulcan on ENT a "proper Vulcan" before the discovery of the Kir'Shara. Because none of them were.

Substitute the work "Human" and this would sound ridiculous - there's no such thing as a "Proper Human," really. We have way too many diferent cultures and expectations among humans. (I just had a really weird thought - what would an "unproper human" act like? My dog? Sleeping all day, sniffing my other dog's backside, playing fetch?)

Anyway - I digress........Every ANYTHING I have ever seen about Vulcan society indicates that ALL Vulcans are expected to live by logic, lest they risk deevolving back into homicidal rageaholics. If they play around with that "rule" at all they are outcasts and considere foolish if not dangerous.

I thought I was going to give up on this one......

[WarpGirl]

All Vulcans ARE expected to live by logic. But the point is the VHC's definition of what is considered "logical behavior" was corrupted by the infiltration of the Romulans. Logic is subjective, because Vulcans are individuals. What might be logical for one Vulcan might be completely illiogical for another. The only time I've seen T'Pol being illiogical was in "The Seventh" and frankly that was crap. And the Trellium D fiasco. Was she too "emotional" at other times? Yes. Was that behavior UnVulcan? Yes. But she was still being logical, she was also wrong many times. Logic doesn't make you infalible. Basically Vulcans are expected to learn and live by the mental diciplines and teachings of Surak. How they decide to do that is up to them.