Black'nBlue, why do Vulcans have bad night vision?

[Lys]

I was thinking about that bad night vision and thought that there could be maybe an easier explanation to it. I remembered that Vulcans have an inner eyelid. So said T'Pol. I guess it works for them like sunglasses work for us except they can't remove them. Now, imagine wearing sunglasses in the middle of the night and tell me if you can see anything clear.

[Reanok]

Hi Lys nice to see you here and yes I agree with you about the inner eyelid and Sunglassses at night.

[blacknblue]

BTW, off topic but some people were asking. Part 11 of Purgatory went to my beta tonight.

[evcake]

I think the inner eyelid is mainly for protection against windblown sand and dust. Also good for other things like exposure to very bright light.

[JadziaKathryn]

Well, I'm pretty sure that in the Vulcan arc T'Pol stated that she didn't need sunglasses because of her inner eyelids. But I could be wrong there, as it's been, what, three years?

[evcake]

Yup, she said that. When Spock used his, it seemed to be an involuntary reaction. Vulcans forget they have it, much as humans forget their own appendix, Spock said.

[Rigil Kent]

Well, I'm pretty sure that in the Vulcan arc T'Pol stated that she didn't need sunglasses because of her inner eyelids. But I could be wrong there, as it's been, what, three years?

That's for bright light, not for really dark locations.

As one of the people who has adopted the idea of crappy night vision for the Vulcans, I did so because I liked BnB's thinking behind it (it's logical, pardon the pun), and I really liked how it eliminates the Mary Sue element of Vulcans that I see all the time in fiction. They're already stronger, faster, tougher, smarter, and longer lived than humans, not to mention the hearing thing. I get really sick of fics that portray the Vulcans as if they were renamed Tolkien elves.

And the whole cave thing, where in canon is that established?

[dark_rain]

Well, I'm pretty sure that in the Vulcan arc T'Pol stated that she didn't need sunglasses because of her inner eyelids. But I could be wrong there, as it's been, what, three years?

That's for bright light, not for really dark locations.

As one of the people who has adopted the idea of crappy night vision for the Vulcans, I did so because I liked BnB's thinking behind it (it's logical, pardon the pun), and I really liked how it eliminates the Mary Sue element of Vulcans that I see all the time in fiction. They're already stronger, faster, tougher, smarter, and longer lived than humans, not to mention the hearing thing. I get really sick of fics that portray the Vulcans as if they were renamed Tolkien elves.

That's exactly how I feel, so there's nothing really for me to say, except this: Do you suppose vulcan night vision might be bad because they might have more trouble seeing light closer to the infrared end of the spectrum?

[Rigil Kent]

Uh ... I don't know enough about biology (that'll change starting next week when my mandatory biology class begins) to really say yay or nay. I suppose that works as well as anything, but given how rarely Trek science actually makes sense...

[hth2k]

Both IR and UV cause damage to eyes.

I also like the idea of Vulcans being less than perfect. BnB's idea of poor night vision being one logical item.

Another might be that Vulcans would not likely be intuitives. Supressing emotion and focus on logic rather precludes having and acting on hunches does it not? They may well be insightful as they seem to posess highly ordered minds with prodidgeous memories.

As we have seen some of them tend to be somewhat provincial and arrogant in their attitudes.

HtH

Disclaimer pending FPA approval.

[blacknblue]

Some of the things I think about Vulcans:

-Poor night vision. Excellent adaptation to bright sunlight due to having evolved under three suns, one of which is extremely bright. This, coupled with thin clear atmosphere and a large bright sister planet means they never needed to develop good night vision. Evolution doesn't burden an organism with anything it doesn't need.

-Great strength. Generally, at least on Earth, strength and flexibility do not go hand in hand. I see Vulcans as being somewhat stiff. I doubt that a Vulcan would excel at the uneven bars in gymnastics. The rings maybe. Their strength would make it easy for them to lift themselves and swing themselves around. But the bending and twisting part would be difficult and painful for them I think. First, because the hard muscles would not stretch easily and second, because the big heavy bones would not be very flexible.

-Heavy and massive. Probably low buoyancy. Linda has gone into th8is at length, and I find her arguments compelling. I agree that the average Vulcan would probably sink like a rock unless they paddled continuously.


A bunch of other stuff I get into in my fics. But it is fun to think about this stuff as thought problems, isn't it?

[dialee]

Blackn'blue

I agree with you further in the lack of necessity for Vulcans to develop good night vision but surely that would depend on the orbital pattern of Vulcan around the tri-star system of Eridani?

Plants have orbits around their suns in either a circular or elliptical patterns. Is it possible that Vulcan would orbit all 3 stars in a variation of a figure 8?

[CX]

Generally, at least on Earth, strength and flexibility do not go hand in hand.

Actually, some of the strongest materials we have are as strong as they are because they have "give" or are somewhat flexible.

[Rigil Kent]

But the point stands, does it not? I know I've seen shows on the History or Discovery Channels that mention how sometimes the strongest materials are easily broken because they're not that flexible, and the inverse is also true. Like those bamboo rods that bend but don't break, whereas a similar-sized piece of different wood can support greater weights but snaps if bent even slightly.

I heartily approve of BnB's attempt to un-Mary Sue the Vulcans and give them some weaknesses. I seem to recall that he made a fantastic argument based on canon scenes that Vulcans couldn't withstand blunt trauma (i.e., punches) as well as a human ...

[CX]

I agree, I was just pointing that out - engineer and all. I actually used that low buoyancy idea on FND.