Human-Vulcan Children

[Hondafan]

I think there would be more genetic variation with males because the lack of genetic information on the y chromasome. Spock should have been more human because of the human dna transposing itself on the upper portion of the vulcan y chromasome and vice-vers. TnT male child would be more vulcan because of the lack of info on the human y chromasome.

[Linda]

I'm not sure how genetics work. But through personal experience, it seems mixing genes is like playing pot luck. Of my daughter's four children, three are very Native American looking: dark hair, tan up real dark in the summer. Then there is the three-year-old girl with strawberry blond hair and skin so white we are afraid to keep her out in the sun for very long. I am not sure you can predict anything when you start mixing genes naturally! Of course genetic engineering is something else again.

[Bether6074]

I am not sure you can predict anything when you start mixing genes naturally!

And therein lies the beauty of it!

[Emberchyld]

I think there would be more genetic variation with males because the lack of genetic information on the y chromasome. Spock should have been more human because of the human dna transposing itself on the upper portion of the vulcan y chromasome and vice-vers. TnT male child would be more vulcan because of the lack of info on the human y chromasome.

I don't know about that. Everyone says that I'm a female version of my dad, down to our "genetic defects" (second toe longer than the first, high arches, going grey "young", even down to the way we walk, which is exactly how my dad's dad walks-- we wear out our shoes in exactly the same spots) The only difference that I have from him is that I inherited his mom's (my grandmother's) nose. My baby sister is an exact clone of my mom's grandmother, and my middle sister is a mix of both sides of the family. It really is random, like Linda said.

[Navigator]

I got to thinking about this because of an offline e-mail with CX and while doing some yard work. (Yard work is so boring.) One of the facets of fan fiction I have a problem with is the difficulty of conception of the Human-Vulcan child. Now Elizabeth was a test tube baby who was created for a specific political purpose and for whatever reason was not "done well". On the other hand we have Commander Sela the offspring in canon of Tasha Yarr and a Romulan, who was apparently conceived the old fashioned way.

Somehow, I just can't see a Romulan commander being really excited about his human concubine conceiving and allowing anything out of the ordinary medically. Therefore, I think conception does not have to be helped along and the pregnancy does not require much, if any, intervention. Also supporting this are the Romulan - Klingon hybrids Worf ran into at the POW colony. There could be problems, because in the case we are interested in, T'Pol is the female, while Spock and Sela both had human mothers. The difference in body temperature could make it difficult for human sperm to impregnate T'Pol. On the other hand, the slight natural rise in human female body temperature during ovulation would close the gap between human and Vulcan body temperature and facilitate a more hospitable environment for conception with a Vulcan father and a human mother.

So for T'Pol to conceive it looks to me that the difference in body temperature affecting the life of the sperm would be the only real obstacle.

Comments? I'd love to hear from the MD's and biologists on board.

[Linda]

Maybe Dr. Distracted will make a comment on this. Navigator, your body temperature question is one I have not heard brought up before - very interesting problem! Would that mean that most Human/Vulcan children would have to have Vulcan fathers and Human mothers? Or would the internal body temperature of a Vulcan woman heat up the little swimmers enough for conception as they race each other to the egg?

[Navigator]

Would that mean that most Human/Vulcan children would have to have Vulcan fathers and Human mothers?

It could, at least for the first generation.

Or would the internal body temperature of a Vulcan woman heat up the little swimmers enough for conception as they race each other to the egg

I think it might heat them up too much. If I remember correctly, heat, even a couple of degrees, affects sperm viability greatly. I have looked for but never found the supposed exact Vulcan body temp, but with Tucker calling her a hot water bottle, would guess in the 102F range. So for conception to occur in a Vulcan female, with a human male, you would have to lower body temperature. In other words, (and you're going to groan) a T'Popsicle.

BnB is probably already thinking of a story of an iced-down T'Pol during pon farr.

Just my idle musings.

[blacknblue]

Iced down? I did kinda play with the idea of sex in a cold water bath in order to reduce the fever...

Anyway, I am personally of the opinion that any first generation Vulcan-Human hybrid would have to be conceived in-vitro. Body chemistry disparities + mama's natural anti-bodies would probably kill sperm long before conception could occur. Not to speak of the wildly improbably chance of getting a viable embryo from random matching of two different species. I suspicion you would need laboratory intercession. In other words. first generation hybrids would about all have to be binary clones like Elizabeth. Just crafted better of course. Get Phlox to do it right next time.

Could a hybrid embryo survive inside mama's womb? Good question.

DISTRACTED?

[CX]

What about Sela then?

[Asso]

Anyway, I am personally of the opinion that any first generation Vulcan-Human hybrid would have to be conceived in-vitro. Body chemistry disparities + mama's natural anti-bodies would probably kill sperm long before conception could occur. Not to speak of the wildly improbably chance of getting a viable embryo from random matching of two different species. I suspicion you would need laboratory intercession. In other words. first generation hybrids would about all have to be binary clones like Elizabeth. Just crafted better of course. Get Phlox to do it right next time.

Could a hybrid embryo survive inside mama's womb? Good question.

DISTRACTED?

It is not possible that two species are so equal (as like as two peas) as Vulcans and Humans are, without an extreme similarity of their DNA. In reality, from the point of view of the evolution, such similarity can be justified only by (MIND MY WORDS!) common ancestors. So the sons...

[blacknblue]

It is not possible that two species are so equal (as like as two peas) as Vulcans and Humans are, without an extreme similarity of their DNA. In reality, from the point of view of the evolution, such similarity can be justified only by (MIND MY WORDS!) common ancestors. So the sons...

Funny you should mention that....

Read chapter 3 of Purgatory and get back to me.

[Linda]

Ok, a piece of canon lore. In the Next Generation Star Trek TV series sixth season there was an episode called 'The Chase' :where it was discovered that an ancient, now extinct sentient species "seeded" our galaxy with DNA, leaving it on several worlds, so that would account for simularities of species evolved on different worlds. The species with members present (and presumably related) at this discovery were Humans, Romulans, and Cardasians. By the presense of the Romulans, I would extrapolate that we are also related to Vulcans.

[blacknblue]

Yeah. That episode indicated that ALL humanoid races are related, due to having a common ancestor billions of years ago.

[Asso]

Ok, a piece of canon lore. In the Next Generation Star Trek TV series sixth season there was an episode called 'The Chase' :where it was discovered that an ancient, now extinct sentient species "seeded" our galaxy with DNA, leaving it on several worlds, so that would account for simularities of species evolved on different worlds. The species with members present (and presumably related) at this discovery were Humans, Romulans, and Cardasians. By the presense of the Romulans, I would extrapolate that we are also related to Vulcans.

Exactly.
To tell the true, it was a mistake in the canon (in Enterprise), in my opinion. The pointed ears, the third invisible eyelid… they only are secondary things, insignificant in the general context of two species absolutely equal, outside and... well, you have to ask to Trip.
What I try to say is that the DNA of two species so similar cannot be so different.
So, the doctor's effort to find the way in order that the two DNA became compatible, was useless.
THEY ARE COMPATIBLE, otherwise T'Pol wouldn't be so!

But the episode was however beautiful!

[Distracted]

I just found this discussion. Personally, I'm of the opinion that any two species genetically different enough to have such a major metabolic difference as the use of an entirely different metal in their oxygen carrying blood proteins would not be capable of reproduction without help. The "common DNA" theory doesn't hold water if you look at things from a strictly scientific viewpoint. An embryo that can't make up its mind whether to use copper or iron as the basis for oxygen exchange wouldn't survive to be born. It doesn't matter if the other 99% of genetic material is identical. Functioning hemoglobin (or cupriglobin if you'd rather) is necessary for a complex life form to grow and develop. The mechanism for oxygen exchange is extremely complex and involves hundreds of different genes and organs. The odds of a natural offspring getting all of the genes for blood cell formation and cupri/hemoglobin production from a single parent AND having the appropriate enzymes in place to recycle either copper or iron back into each newly formed crop of green/red cells (we replace them entirely every 3 mos) is so remote as to strain even my credibility.

On the other hand, since when has Star Trek science corresponded to real life? There's honestly no way to reconcile the two. So I just suspend disbelief the best I can and try to make it sound good.

So...maybe Sela was an experiment?