Proposal: An E2 Virtual Series?

[Rigil Kent]

Umm ... there are a lot more issues that needed to be resolved. The crew of Lorian's ship know that they run the risk of being "invalidated" from the time stream by intercepting their earlier version before it enters the subspace corridor. Once they missed getting the weapon initially, why then do they basically wait a year to intercept Archer & Co.? They have the ship's logs so they already know where and, more importantly, when ENT is going to be, so logic demands that that they intercept Archer much earlier than they do. A second Enterprise would have been a lot of help at Azati Prime, you know? Some of the people who died wouldn't have needed to if they had acted earlier.

[CoffeeCat]

In E2, I've always wondered why they didn't take the time to destroy the spheres while they were in the past.

[Rigil Kent]

Yet another really good question. They do know about the spheres at the point in which they go into the past, and I'd think that T'Pol with 100+ years would be able to figure out a plan that she only needed a couple of hours to figure out in the normal timeline...

[aeverett]

Problem #1: How is a lone ship struggling to survive in a hostile region of space going to pay mercenaries?

Supposedly the crew did alot of trading over the years with different species. They could sell technology, or something else they have. Remember, the ship's entire mission was to stop the Xindi weapon. After that they no longer had to hole up in the expanse, they could come knocking on Earth's door at that point, with a wopper of a tale to tell. In short, they could strip down to their bulkheads, so long as they kept a few months food and provisions to make it back to Earth.

Problem #2: For mercenaries to help the alternate crew would bring the wrath of the Xindi down on them, which could be a powerful deterrent since there are an awful lot of them.

Merceneries are usually privateers, not government funded groups. Who would the Xindi retaliate against? Also, remember, the Xindi probe had but one soldier onboard, so who would witness the fight and send info back to the council? No, merceneries are fighters; they know the risks of war. The Xindi are not that powerful that a mercenery group couldn't hide from them in the Expanse, even if they did get identified by the Xindi. Merceneries always have Plan B's, and they take on clients with full knowledge that they could become targets of their clients enemies.

[aeverett]

Umm ... there are a lot more issues that needed to be resolved. The crew of Lorian's ship know that they run the risk of being "invalidated" from the time stream by intercepting their earlier version before it enters the subspace corridor. Once they missed getting the weapon initially, why then do they basically wait a year to intercept Archer & Co.? They have the ship's logs so they already know where and, more importantly, when ENT is going to be, so logic demands that that they intercept Archer much earlier than they do. A second Enterprise would have been a lot of help at Azati Prime, you know? Some of the people who died wouldn't have needed to if they had acted earlier.

Perhaps they had little to offer Archer and crew in terms of a solution at that point.

A second ship might endanger the original Enterprise as much as it helped, and the Enterprise made it to the cooridor, so waiting for them would be the safest course of action here.

Also, this could also be where the safety of the kiddies come in; how many little ones on E2 would perish in place of men and women like Crewman Taylor, at Azati Prime?

Also, at Azati Prime, Archer is already attempting negotiations with Degra, if only while being beaten to a bloody pulp by Dolem, doing it. Degra has yet to sign on with Archer whole heartedly. A second Enterprise coming out of the mysts could derail Degra siding with them and be seen as a trick.

And finally, the invalidating thing still sticks in my craw, but one could argue that there are somethings worth dying for and 7 million people, along with the planet of your ancestors might be one of those things. At least that's the primary motivation of the adults on E2, at least so far in my thinking on the series. The series does have an undercurrent of that sadness in it, and that is one of the obstacles the crew has to dramatically overcome, but then, it's no different than if the crew had a terminal but managed disease, like HIV. With medication, you can often live a normal life, for many years, but eventually you get AIDS and a deadly opportunistic infection. People go through that every day. They function, and so would the E2 crew, particularly knowing that their deaths will save so many lives on Earth, and that everyone in their community is going through the same thing and will support them emotionally.

[Rigil Kent]

Perhaps they had little to offer Archer and crew in terms of a solution at that point.

Nothing to offer? They had 100 years of Expanse survival techniques as well as (I'm hoping) extensive sensor logs that would serve as a map of the Expanse. They had, as displayed by the episode in question, the capability to jump the NX-01 up to warp 6 for short periods of time. They might not have had a solution, but they sure as heck had resources there.

A second ship might endanger the original Enterprise as much as it helped, and the Enterprise made it to the cooridor, so waiting for them would be the safest course of action here.

How? There's strength in numbers and, as we've seen time and time again on the show, the NX-01 constantly got its ass kicked.

Also, this could also be where the safety of the kiddies come in; how many little ones on E2 would perish in place of men and women like Crewman Taylor, at Azati Prime?

Yet, as Lorian stated in E2, he had the opportunity to ram the weapon yet blinked. He's already made the decision that they're all going to die, so the decision to basically sit on their thumbs and do nothing until ENT reaches the corridor just doesn't make any sense to me. Since they missed the weapon and it took, according to the show, three months just for Archer's ENT to reach the Expanse, they should have been waiting for them.

Heh. That'd make an interesting "What If" fic. Imagine if Lorian's ship swooped out of nowhere and blew apart that annoying Klingon.

Back to the point at hand. I see exactly two possible explanations why Lorian's ENT isn't there to greet Archer.

1. The damage they incurred trying to blow up the Xindi death star was so severe that it took Lorian's ship out of the fight for several months (for repairs.) Among the damage is the computer logs from the time prior to the subspace corridor and, since T'Pold suffers from both trellium damage and pa'nar, she can't accurately predict Archer's ENT location, so they spend the time trying to track them down before ultimately deciding to wait for them at the corridor.

2. It's Daniels' fault. Somehow, that time traveling boob did ... something, that made it impossible for Lorian to find Archer's ENT. I never trusted that bugger ...

[aeverett]

Nothing to offer? They had 100 years of Expanse survival techniques as well as (I'm hoping) extensive sensor logs that would serve as a map of the Expanse. They had, as displayed by the episode in question, the capability to jump the NX-01 up to warp 6 for short periods of time. They might not have had a solution, but they sure as heck had resources there.

Gizmos are one thing. A plan is another. Also, the plot to jump them up to Warp 6 had a 22 percent risk of getting Archer's ship blown up. I tend to read that as this was a plan cobbled together when they failed to destroy Xindi weapon #1. I think they had too many of their eggs in that basket, so they had to rush the Warp 6.9 thing, and couldn't get the safety factor over 78%.

Regional knowledge wouldn't be enough to come out of hiding, particularly with such a violent future ahead. 2 ships, particularly one over a century old, modified for generational use, wouldn't make that much of a difference in the Expanse. Not to mention, you have too much of a risk of temporal erasure whenever E2 identifies itself. Interfere too early and E2 could disappear too early to do any good.

How? There's strength in numbers and, as we've seen time and time again on the show, the NX-01 constantly got its ass kicked.

The whole tapestry analogy from TNG. Who knows what jumping in earlier would have done. Enterprise DID make it to the cooridor, did convince Degra and the Arborial Xindi, by that time, who knows how E2 entering the scene earlier could mess things up on those fronts? I agree with Lorian and T'Pold and the rest, stopping them right before they entered the corridor was the right course of action, the one only likely to alter the E2's existance and only E2's existance, not prior events, which despite the hardship and loss, still got Enterprise as far as the cooridor, and a real shot at ending the Xindi conflict relatively peacefully.

Yet, as Lorian stated in E2, he had the opportunity to ram the weapon yet blinked.

Exactly, Lorian wasn't commited to ramming the ship and killing his crew. Obviously, the crew thought their plan would succeed without having to kill themselves and their kids. They were wrong. Lorian hesitated. Read Hopeful Romantic's 'The Storyteller'. It describes it perfectly!

While I share your sentiments on Daniels, the first idea is intriguing. The damage to the computers I'm not sure works for me, but heavy damage going after the weapon that forces them to limp at impulse to someplace they can get repairs might work. Sure they know where Enterprise is all these times, but if they blew out half their systems in the fight and can't make it to the ship, what good is that knowlege?

[Rigil Kent]

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Ignoring the real world explanation (i.e., the producers didn't come up with the story of E2 until late in the creative process), I can't (in my mind) come up with a good explanation why Lorian didn't show up earlier to lend a hand or provide direction. If nothing else, it could have been an interesting running subplot wherein Archer's Enterprise keeps getting recognized by the inhabitants of the Expanse even though they haven't been there before, and a mysterious figure relates key intel to them when they hit a wall.

But that is clearly asking too much of the people who never even bothered to figure out who their Future!Guy was.

[justTripn]

My question is why they didn't hire merceneries to help them attack the weapon? In human history, mass displacement like that always preduces a bumpercrop of soldiers for hire, and its not like they would need them long term, just to destroy the weapon.

Hey I like that. Any chance that is a subplot?

[aeverett]

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Ignoring the real world explanation (i.e., the producers didn't come up with the story of E2 until late in the creative process), I can't (in my mind) come up with a good explanation why Lorian didn't show up earlier to lend a hand or provide direction. If nothing else, it could have been an interesting running subplot wherein Archer's Enterprise keeps getting recognized by the inhabitants of the Expanse even though they haven't been there before, and a mysterious figure relates key intel to them when they hit a wall.

I agree on that! That would have been cool. Ya see, this is why I love feedback. Now I can see potential plotholes in E2 to plug up with my series.

[ginamr]

Here's an original idea...maybe it could be an audio drama series. It'd take a lot of work, but scripts tend to be a bit easier to put together than narratives. Mind you, the dialogue has to tell the story, but if you have good dialogue, you have a fairly good audio series.

[blacknblue]

Nothing to offer?

They had:

- A tractor beam.

- warp 6 capability.

- a map of the expanse.

- extensive knowledge of the races living in the expanse, both friendly and non-friendly.

- extensive knowledge of the Xindi bases, both locations and strengths

- extensive Intel regarding the Xindi races, physiology, psychology, sociology. Background on their historical feuds.

- a complete map of the spheres.

- a map of the location, intensity and characteristics of the anomalies.

- scanner upgrades either bought or designed over the course of a century.

- friends and alliances forged over the course of a century with other races in the expanse. at least trading partnerships.

- probably weapon upgrades and shield upgrades.

- another Vulcan mind with all that entails. In fact, two Vulcan minds, both of which several extra decades of experience in the expanse to draw from.

- scads and wads and bunches and piles and heaping sackfuls of other stuff.