Name your favorite scene and why!

[Alelou]

T'Pol tends to zig zag in her approach to anything she really wants. She reminds me of our feral kitty -- she'll never approach us straight, it's always evasive maneuvers until suddenly she's lying there showing you her belly and just begging for a good petting -- even from my son, and our own indoor cat barely tolerates petting from him. But one sneeze or a leaf rattling or something and she's up and away like a shot. And then she's back again. She's desperate for the contact, really, but scared to death of the vulnerability involved.

[Asso]

That's not denial that's diplomacy.

What's diplomatic about not taking responsibility for what it is you want to do instead of using the doctor's phony orders to hide behind. She knew she wasn't injured as seriously as they had indicated.

I agree. T'Pol had a long road to cover.

[pdsldl]

I agree and that's what I thought Trip realized when she pulled back on him. Maybe not consciously but some part of him felt her fear and responded by easing back to allow himself and her time to adjust. I also think he surprised her when he didn't suggested the continued NP and didn't run away. Her face said she may be rethinking whatever it was she had been thinking about him. The push/pull and back door way they had interacted with one another to that point couldn't have gone unnoticed so he may have decided it was safest to retreat, lick his wounds, and try a different approach to overcome whatever it was she was running from.


And if it had truly been an exploration she would have approached it more scientifically not by bringing up Sim to find out if he felt the same way she did and making him jealous. He'd worked with her long enough to know deep down how she approached research

[alt_Toza]

T'Pol tends to zig zag in her approach to anything she really wants. She reminds me of our feral kitty -- she'll never approach us straight, it's always evasive maneuvers until suddenly she's lying there showing you her belly and just begging for a good petting -- even from my son, and our own indoor cat barely tolerates petting from him. But one sneeze or a leaf rattling or something and she's up and away like a shot. And then she's back again. She's desperate for the contact, really, but scared to death of the vulnerability involved.

Exactly! And purr wee Trip is probably thinking it's worth all the hassle cos something like a cat that Walks By Itself and comes to you eventually is harder-won and therefore much more appreciated than some dog/pet/whatever that just laps you up from the get-go.

Does that make sense? The harder it is to get some recognition / attraction / need from it, the more satisfying it is if/when you finally do get it?

[Asso]

I agree and that's what I thought Trip realized when she pulled back on him. Maybe not consciously but some part of him felt her fear and responded by easing back to allow himself and her time to adjust. I also think he surprised her when he didn't suggested the continued NP and didn't run away. Her face said she may be rethinking whatever it was she had been thinking about him. The push/pull and back door way they had interacted with one another to that point couldn't have gone unnoticed so he may have decided it was safest to retreat, lick his wounds, and try a different approach to overcome whatever it was she was running from.


And if it had truly been an exploration she would have approached it more scientifically not by bringing up Sim to find out if he felt the same way she did and making him jealous. He'd worked with her long enough to know deep down how she approached research

Exactly.
And that's, among all, what I tried to show in my "Human Mood".

[WarpGirl]

Sorry I totally disagree the whole line of thinking makes T'Pol seem like some kind of victim. And I don't believe she is anything like that. As for diplomacy, the first rule of that is always have an out. By saying she's too injured to go back to the VHC she isn't putting the alliance, her career, the Captain, or Starfleet in any bad position. Allowing EVERYONE to save face. That is the very essence of diplomacy.

T'Pol isn't gun shy, she's Vulcan in a never before contemplated relationship with a human man. Her only fear is fear of her own percieved inadaquacy.

[panyasan]

When I can find myself in some of the points offered to explain T'Pols behaviour, the fact that she "faked" how much she was injured in the Andorian incident, is a way of politicialy trying to achive something, namely that she could stay on Enterprise .

[WarpGirl]

EXACTLY my point. It was politics, evasive sure, but hardly and indicator of her way of thinking about life entirely.

[Asso]

C'mon, WarpGirl! A little bit of lenience.

[Alelou]

And why did she feel the need to evade Archer, who was clearly trying to help her stay throughout the episode?

I think she's evading HERSELF and her own personal, illogical, inappropriate-for-a-Vulcan desire to ignore the High Command and stay with the Humans instead of doing as she has been told. If she's being 'diplomatic' with anyone, it's with herself.

[WarpGirl]

Nope ASSO no lenience. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions. Alelou I agree that T'Pol has many crises of conscience as it were. Being Vulcan mixing with humans isn't easy. But I don't think it's evasion, more of confusion.

[Asso]

No, WarpGirl?
As you wish.

[panyasan]

And why did she feel the need to evade Archer, who was clearly trying to help her stay throughout the episode?

I think she's evading HERSELF and her own personal, illogical, inappropriate-for-a-Vulcan desire to ignore the High Command and stay with the Humans instead of doing as she has been told. If she's being 'diplomatic' with anyone, it's with herself.

Now I understand what you are trying to say. Indeed, she really likes to be with humans, or more specific to be on Enterprise even when in the beginning she is the outsider and as Vulcan you don't suppose to "like" something. I think it hard for her to face it and to understand why she likes to be with humans.
Couldn't help but to think about her mothers remark that T'Pols emotions were always on the surface (a definite no-no in Vulcan culture) and that she always had an interest in alien cultures. Things that would have made her different in the eyes of other Vulcans. So in a way she always has been the outsider - with her own people - and later she was seen as a pariah - and also with humans. I think she has compassion for both of them, so being the outsider is part of her struggle. Part of the attraction she feels for Trip is problably that he accepts her the way she is, as a Vulcan, but mostly simply as T'Pol.

[WarpGirl]

That's really awsome Panysan but I still don't think it makes her deliberately evasive with her life. I think she's scared, but honestly who wouldn't be? The thing is she doesn't know how to handle it but I've never seen her deliberately do something to avoid anything. She takes actions, the wrong ones most of the time, but they're still actions.

[panyasan]

Well, I was just musing aloud. I don't think T'Pol runs away or hides or that sort of thing from live in general. The thing about denial, it's done subconsious. You don't get up in the morning and say "Today I am going to deny this and this," only when you charged with something and have to face the jugde. Denial is also a survival mechanism, because facing the facts can be too overwhelming.