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Silverbullet wrote:Aqaurius. I have always taken the position that Trip had a very good University level education. He worked on Warp Drives he had to understand a lot of things other than the mechanics of an Engine working.

He would need to know higher mathematics, quantum Physics, and mechanics. Relativity, Newtonian Physics. Those would be essential to an engine that warps space and Time.

That doesn't preclude Starfleet from giving him that training themselves, or sending him somewhere to get it.

I don't think it is out of the question that Trip had a degree - Starfleet could have sent him anywhere in the world to get a degree after he entered as a "self-taught" recruit.

By example, the guy running for Senate in PA is a retired admiral. He went to Annapolis and graduated - but was still in the navy when he went to Harvard for a PHD in public administration. So, Trip could easily have some kind of degree or degrees that he obtained while in Starfleet.

And as for being self-taught - maybe he didn't go to a fancy prep school or have early training that other Starfleet recruits got from their families. Certainly, Archer had an in given his Dad's work.

Exactly. Trip's Starfleet training could've consisted of having his days split up between academics and military and/or hands-on Engineering training. If he was a prodigy, he may have even been in some kind of accelerated program, which makes sense if they felt like they were trying to "catch up" to Vulcan standards. They'd want their best and brightest trained and ready to go, like *now*.

Plus, there's the whole fact that this holo-program was fairly obviously historically flawed (not even taking into account our general dislike of it.) I liken it to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." Everybody likes the story about "self-made men," so even if Trip had acquired the equivalent of three or four doctorates while he was in high school or during his Starfleet career, it makes for a better story (in their opinion) to portray him as a college drop-out.

I agree with Aquarius' thoughts about Trip entering right out of high school and getting his education as he rose through the ranks at Starfleet. It's not like he was necessarily a high school drop out, more like a never went. Recruited right into the majors, if you will.

Also, the world was still recovering from a massive global war that claimed millions of lives. Things change rapidly in times of upheaval. Maybe at that time people would view higher education differently.

My father retired from AT&T as a fiber optic engineer specializing is corrosion. He had a few college classes but most of what he knew was self taught or came courtesy of the U.S. Army.

Rigel - Where DID you get your avatar? It makes me laugh every time I see it.

Aikiweezie wrote:I agree with Aquarius' thoughts about Trip entering right out of high school and getting his education as he rose through the ranks at Starfleet. It's not like he was necessarily a high school drop out, more like a never went. Recruited right into the majors, if you will.

Just a personal preference, but I kind of like the idea of Trip having some relatively normal and aspects to his teen years, stuff that high school kids do being part of that. I like to think he graduated, but was just younger than his classmates. That way he gets the whole summer job/beach bonfire/summer romance experience at those tender years, when stuff like girls and vehicles that go fast are important to boys.

This is kind of funny. I'm sending in a story this afternoon that sort of revolves around Trip's education. Great minds, single thought

I dont believe it matters so much how he got it but what he knows. He had to know many things. You cannot play around with Space ad time ignorantly.

There have been some who dropped out of College because they were so intelligent that they could learn nothing at the college. Trip may have been that. which means he had a vry high I.Q.

Aquarius wrote:Okay, I thought we had a thread specifically about Trip's education, but I can't find it. The discussion may have happened here, though, because it's one of the things that bugs us most about *the_abomination*, when Hoshi says that bit about Trip learned his craft by working on boat engines.

As I said in another thread, my BFF and I were having an Enterprise mini-marathon, and we watched from "Broken Bow" through "Terra Nova." I can't remember which episode it is now, but during one of them he mentioned he'd been in Starfleet for 20 years. I remembered reading somewhere that Trip was supposed to be about 36 when he became chief engineer of the Enterprise--meaning he'd been in Starfleet since he was 16 or 17--allowing for the fact that most people aren't so precise as to have said something like "nineteen and a half years" in a situation like that.

Does any of this make sense to anyone else?

One problem with your theory... Trip is 30 in Broken Bow, that means he's 34 in season 4. So if he was in Starfleet 20 years he joined at 14!!!!!!!! OK I call him a Da Vinci but I doubt they let him officially join up at 14. I could see him taking classes with top Starfleet engineers at 14 though. So maybe he would consider that as his start in Starfleet.

Where does it say that?

Aquarius wrote:Where does it say that?

Memory Alpha has his date of birth being in 2121, and Broken Bow occurs in 2151. I had actually forgotten about that.

I'll be digging thru those episodes again this weekend at the con since I'm taking a vidding class, so I'm going to re-check the line he says; it's been a few weeks so I may have filled in the 20 years and 36 wrong mentally, but I remember the math at the time working out to be he was in Starfleet since he was 16 or 17, so don't count me out yet.

This bit from 'Unexpected' is all I could remember. However if he was thirty that would have him joining up at about 18.
TUCKER: I've been in Starfleet for twelve years. Do you think I'd jeopardize my career by messing around with some alien engineer on a three day mission? I considered myself a diplomat from the minute I set foot in that vessel. Well, there was that box of pebbles.

Memory Alpha has just about everybody's birthdays except Phlox I think... Archer was 45, Trip 30, Hoshi 22... and so on. But if you really don't trust that source ST.com has the same info.

I'm not counting you out Aquarius, my own theory is that he was taking advanced math, science, and engineering classes all through school while taking grade level history and humanities classes (simply because they don't interest him and he wants his peers in his life) and I could totally see Starfleet yanking him right at graduation and saying "Forget University, we'll give you everything you need while you work for us."

bluetiger--THAT'S what it was!!! Now I remember. The 36 thing--got my wires crossed with another character. Okay, this is how Aquarius-logic worked when I saw that: I had remembered reading that Trip was 29 when he became chief engineer--which was how I landed at 17. (And before anyone jumps all over me for a rebuttal, his year of birth still works if he was about to turn 30 but hadn't yet when he got the job as chief engineer.) The age thing--I'd been looking up a whole bunch of things in the same night, and they had all kind of mushed together in the process, but what stood out in my mind from my mini-marathon with the BFF. was however the math worked out, Trip would've been 17. I'd only truly remembered the bottom line when this whole train of thought started in the Natalie thread.

So...wrong numbers, but still right answer. My theory about him joining Starfleet right out of high school and being educated there still works.

(so there )