May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:12 am

OK I'm gonna add a bit of info on my other story... *Rights,* Wrongs, and Choices I promised a revision because people had all sorts of issues. Don't ask me why I did that, because truthfully I have no clue. But I thought I at least owed people to make it clear who the narrator of the story is. And then I got requests to write some Kali'fee combat. OK fine enter my nemises the Lirpa! If I could I'd give the person who came up with it a peice of my mind. It is a terrible weapon, absolutely awful. But I am nothing if not bull headed and persistent. So I did research, and still stumped. So my beautiful brilliant and wonderful beta (whom I will refer to as Squirt) is also going to be watching and helping.

I've also got to thank Misplaced, her amazing Musings of the MU series has inspired me to take the same approach with Rights.... So I'm thinking 6 short fics counting the epilogue detailing several POV's. I'm not turning this into the epic that May We... is. I suppose I should also thank Honeybee and Aquarius since basically it was their faults I got inspired to write the dang thing to begin with. But I pretty much owe Transwarp and Dis well into the next millenium for their encouragement. And Linda for being so sweet and inspiring with her help too.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby Transwarp » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:01 pm

WarpGirl,
I finally had the time to read chapter 5, and I left my thoughts in the comment section at the end of the chapter. But, since you have this thread open, I will go ahead and post them here as well:

At long last I've had the time to sit down and read your latest chapter and put down my thoughts about it.



First, let me say it was worth the wait. As cogito pointed out, there is a great deal of material here. Asso said the chapter was cerebral, which confused you, but I think I know why he said it: You presented us with a wealth of information about Vulcan and Vulcan culture in this chapter. think about it--we learned of T'Pol's status as Surak's descendant and matriarch of her clan, and of the slave clans and their roles in society, along with the historical basis behind the whole system. We learned why S'Tal was not present at T'Pol's wedding to Koss, and why S'Tol couldn't protect her in the Forge. We learned the protocols of being presented to the matriarch and exchanging oaths.



Personally, I thought it was all fascinating and very believable, but there was so much information doled out that I can certainly detect a certain 'cerebrial' air to that section. There were over 3000 words in the shuttle ride to the surface (I just counted them), mostly about Vulcan customs and S'tal's relation to T'Pol's clan. If I had been writing it, I would have been nervous about the length, but it also all seems to be necessary (and interesting) information. I think I might have tried to shorten it a bit and move some of the information to other sections, but I'm not sure what.



Don't get me wrong, I think the way you gave us the data was well done. We learned it from Trip's point of view as dialogue with S'Tal during a long and boring shuttle ride to the surface. It's probably exactly how I would have done it, just not so much detail at once. And let me reiterate it's a marvelous look into the complex interworkings of Vulcan culture.

Then there are the 'non-cerebrial' parts of the story. The parts where we see the interactions between Trip and T'Pol, and get to see how they deal with their feelings and each other in a very trying time. This is where you shine.

Here is a brief description of the difference in the way Trip and T'Pol's grief was manifested:
--------
Grief came in solid waves for Trip. A crushing force that would hit then slowly recede over and over again. For T'Pol it was like the raging winds of a hurricane. They were constant and savage, and ripped through her leaving nothing but chaos, until a small eye came giving a short measure of time to mount a defense for the next phase.
--------

Wow. Clear, concise, and immediate. I feel the grief of them both and understand the difference in how they experience it. All from a single, short paragraph.

The next three paragraphs may be one of the best explanations of how (and why) Vulcans control their emotions that I have ever read:
--------
T'Pol went into his arms, hoping that his touch would make the reasons for the mass of conflicting emotions he was experiencing clear to her. She, quite illogically, envied humanity for the ability to control many different emotions all at once. Vulcans had to isolate each emotion from the others and process them one at a time. Years of training, hard work, and of course a Vulcan brain, made this process simple when one was surrounded by other Vulcans. But her years with humans had made it a constant struggle to isolate the constant bombardment of their disorganized emotions. Now that she was bonded to Charles, she wasn't just sensing this chaos, it was a part of her. The only thing that kept her from getting consumed was the faith she had that he would never let it happen.
Trip held her so closely that not even air could flow between them. He wished he could take his sling off, but he had promised Phlox to wait until tomorrow. His free hand stroked her lower back, and he pressed kisses to the top of her head. He was beginning to realize just how hard it was for her to be bonded with him. Whenever she sensed any emotional chaos from anyone, a primal survival instinct flowed through to him. For her, this chaos was as dangerous as a Klingon swinging a bat'leth at her head, whereas to him, it was just life. He knew he couldn't stop the chaos, for that was what it meant to be human.

He also knew she couldn't live without her emotions organized and in control. The smallest slip had the potential to destroy her, and one already nearly had. The aftermath of the Trellium-D had opened his eyes on how much she went through daily in order to do the job she believed in. What he learned made him regret some of the things he had done and said to irritate her, or the times when he refused to trust her. But now, being bonded to her was a whole other level of awareness. She had to understand why he was feeling certain things, or else she could not process them. If she could not process them, she could not control them, and if she could not control them, she was lost.
--------

It also makes very clear just how DIFFICULT being around humans is for Vulcans.

This is a heartwrenching picture of the grief and regret T'Pol still feels at the loss of her mother:
--------
She had never been able to form a close bond with her mother, despite the link they shared. All of her life, she had known she was inadequate because of her differences with the majority of Vulcans. Her mother had believed those differences were very dangerous. Even though they had made peace before T'Les' death, T'Pol still felt the space in her katra that had never been filled. Despite all logic, she wondered if her mother had felt such emptiness, and if so, had T'Rai filled it? Pushing the thoughts aside, she focused on the fact that, outdated tradition or not, this child was a part of her clans. She had a responsibility from birth to protect all members if the unborn child was in danger, and she would do everything in her power to ensure its health and safety. She had lost her own child, her clans would not lose another.
--------

Sad, but beautifully written.

I don't have time to list and remark on every passage that I liked (there were a lot of them), but here are some of the highlights:

- When Trip arrives at T'Pol's house and is struck again by it's beauty, he imagines T'Pol as a little girl exploring the grounds. That image brought a smile to my face.

- This exchange between Trip and T'Pol also made me smile:
"You are my mate."

"Not exactly."

"I believe you would say 'close enough.'


Yes, I believe I would.

- And how about this?
T'Pol was looking at S'Tal in much the same way she looked at Phlox's specimens or anomalies under her scanner. "Much has changed," she whispered.

I know that look!

- And this:
...he understood that sometimes when T'Pol was trying to avoid doing anything that might hurt anyone, including herself, she ended up putting herself in the very situation she was trying to avoid. At least this time she was trying not to shut him out too.

So true!

- I like this little character sketch of Koss:
"No. He respected me, he even cared about me. But I was as much a duty to him as he was to me. He was willing to fulfill that duty as long as I was willing to do so. He knew I would never be willing to truly be his wife. Even without you, we were too different. He did not want to lead that life any more than I did."


- Here T'Pol elicits a laugh from Trip, and we get to see it's affect on her:
Wonder of wonders, it worked! Trip did start to laugh. Not the unrestrained, loud laughter he was so known for, their grief was too strong for that. But it was there. The sound and the hope in it warmed her to the depths of her katra.


Mine, too!

- The section where T'Pau is pumping Archer for information is also well done, and is probably THE best depiction of a completely centered Vulcan I have ever read anywhere. Nothing Archer did or said rattled her. We rarely see such composure from Vulcans on TV or in the movies, either, heightening the rarity of this scene.

I must say I am really enjoying this story--especially the last two chapters--and I'm looking forward to more, but since you have asked for honest appraisal, I will also mention the sections I found didn't work so well. I believe you can take some pride in the fact that they are relatively minor.

- This telepathic exchange between the Vulcan twins seemed out of place to me:
--------

Salek and S'Troa were telepathically linked and could communicate with each other easily. Salek said, "Sir Tucker is fascinating."



"Indeed he is, perhaps he will also wish us to address him as Trip. Much about our way of life is changing, my brother."



"Va'Vuhnaya s'Va'Terishlar."



"Ma etek natyan-teretuhr lau etek shetau weh-lo'uk do tum t'on."



"Indeed."

--------

It was just suddenly there, out of the blue, and then nothing more from them. And we don't really learn anything useful from their observation. I'd say to either have MORE of them (we could probably learn some useful things about Vulcan from their observations of Trip) or nothing of them at all.

- Trip's reaction here (heart pounding) seems out of place to the stimulus. It made me stop and wonder why. T'Pol was not surprised, or angry or sad. Just awkward and shy. Why would that get his blood racing?
--------
It didn't surprise T'Pol that T'Rai was pregnant, but she wondered why she wasn't told. "I was not aware you are expecting a child."



Trip's heart started pounding, he wasn't sure if he should step in or not. He knew that T'Pol was uncomfortable; it had been so long since she had any meaningful contact with anyone on Vulcan. The last two times she had even set foot on the planet had been utter disasters. Even now she was here for tragedy. Only now she was responsible for not only her immediate family, but many other families that depended on hers. He still wasn't sure where he fit in, and he had learned his lesson when it came to interfering in alien customs. T'Pol wasn't angry or sad, just extremely awkward and shy. He decided to let her handle things for now. He trusted her to tell him what she needed.
--------

- I think the section where T'Pol shows Trip the room made to look like his bedroom back on Earth went on a little too long. You had the initial surprise, and the 'Awww that's sweet' moment, but then you explained how she had done it and why she had done it and finding the right candles and... well, to me it just seemed unecessary to go into such detail.

- And then there is, uh, the, uh... Well, I guess that's it. Only three things I found distracting or awkward.

Good work!
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.

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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:06 pm

:happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: :happyjump: Okay I finally, feel like I can stop worrying over the dang chapter! Yes I'm a freak. Transwarp thank you, how is it you make me all teary? I am not a girl that gets all teary...

Transwarp wrote:Personally, I thought it was all fascinating and very believable, but there was so much information doled out that I can certainly detect a certain 'cerebrial' air to that section. There were over 3000 words in the shuttle ride to the surface (I just counted them), mostly about Vulcan customs and S'tal's relation to T'Pol's clan.


First of all I'm kind of shocked that you counted! But I think it's one of the sweetest things anyone has done in a review before. And I'll admit it right now, I'm too wordy! I'll use ten words when I only need five. I am working on it, really I am. So you're perfectly right, some of this probably dragged on, but until I can get my brain to figure out how to not use so many words, (which I eventually will) I'm pretty satisfied with this.

Transwarp wrote:Then there are the 'non-cerebrial' parts of the story. The parts where we see the interactions between Trip and T'Pol, and get to see how they deal with their feelings and each other in a very trying time. This is where you shine.


Here is a brief description of the difference in the way Trip and T'Pol's grief was manifested:
--------
Grief came in solid waves for Trip. A crushing force that would hit then slowly recede over and over again. For T'Pol it was like the raging winds of a hurricane. They were constant and savage, and ripped through her leaving nothing but chaos, until a small eye came giving a short measure of time to mount a defense for the next phase.
--------

Wow. Clear, concise, and immediate. I feel the grief of them both and understand the difference in how they experience it. All from a single, short paragraph.


LOL At least I was concise about one thing! :-P Okay confession time, it wasn't all me, well it was... but not because I planned it that way. First of all, as I said my niece had just passed away when I started writing this chapter, so I could put the human terms of this grief pretty well. Then I watched a Bones episode and the Psychologist was explaining that nobody is constantly grieving over a death. It comes in waves. Mourning is constant not grief. Now that might be a lot of bull, I'm not sure. But it worked for what I wanted.

As for T'Pol, she's a Vulcan in an emotional situation where her control will be limited no matter what she does. So it's sheer havoc. What forces of nature cause such havoc? Tornadoes and Hurricanes. And I liked the word hurricane better. It just flowed well.

Transwarp wrote:The next three paragraphs may be one of the best explanations of how (and why) Vulcans control their emotions that I have ever read:
--------
T'Pol went into his arms, hoping that his touch would make the reasons for the mass of conflicting emotions he was experiencing clear to her. She, quite illogically, envied humanity for the ability to control many different emotions all at once. Vulcans had to isolate each emotion from the others and process them one at a time. Years of training, hard work, and of course a Vulcan brain, made this process simple when one was surrounded by other Vulcans. But her years with humans had made it a constant struggle to isolate the constant bombardment of their disorganized emotions. Now that she was bonded to Charles, she wasn't just sensing this chaos, it was a part of her. The only thing that kept her from getting consumed was the faith she had that he would never let it happen.
Trip held her so closely that not even air could flow between them. He wished he could take his sling off, but he had promised Phlox to wait until tomorrow. His free hand stroked her lower back, and he pressed kisses to the top of her head. He was beginning to realize just how hard it was for her to be bonded with him. Whenever she sensed any emotional chaos from anyone, a primal survival instinct flowed through to him. For her, this chaos was as dangerous as a Klingon swinging a bat'leth at her head, whereas to him, it was just life. He knew he couldn't stop the chaos, for that was what it meant to be human.

He also knew she couldn't live without her emotions organized and in control. The smallest slip had the potential to destroy her, and one already nearly had. The aftermath of the Trellium-D had opened his eyes on how much she went through daily in order to do the job she believed in. What he learned made him regret some of the things he had done and said to irritate her, or the times when he refused to trust her. But now, being bonded to her was a whole other level of awareness. She had to understand why he was feeling certain things, or else she could not process them. If she could not process them, she could not control them, and if she could not control them, she was lost.
--------

It also makes very clear just how DIFFICULT being around humans is for Vulcans.


YEY! I honestly thought this part wouldn't go over well. The majority believe that the way Vulcans deal with emotions is merely deny and surpress. And in ENT they bent over backwards to make it seem that way. It totally got on my nerves, and I've scared my cat often enough screeming at the TV about it. But in actuality, that isn't what Vulcans do at all. Watch TOS, or the Vulcan TNG episodes, or any of Tuvok's mentoring episodes, and you'll see they have very specific diciplines for emotional control. And those diciplines depend on knowing what the emotion is, how it was triggered, and why. Otherwise surpression and control is impossible. I've said it before and I'll say it again, when a Vulcan says... I do not experience... they're saying they don't experience the emotion in the same way a human does. Why would they? They're aliens. If they did experiences them the way we do, they wouldn't need the level of control they do to function.

And yeah another thing that annoys me to no end is when people say T'Pol has been around humans long enough to know... Or She should understand... And She knows Trip well enough, they're bonded... Um... There is a difference between "knowing" something and understanding how to react to it.

Add in the fact that it is canon that Vulcans are empaths without the touching, and a great many are also non-touch telepaths, and it is difficault for them to be surrounded by us messy humans. It was hard for Spock, it was hard for Sarek (and he had it easiest), it was hard for Saavik, it was hard for Tuvok, basically every Vulcan character we've ever seen has had some difficulty dealing with non-Vulcans, because by their definition, other species are so chaotic their instincts say they're a threat. It's a matter of physiology not merely culture, the Vulcan brain is not wired to opperate on the same emotional wavelength as 99% of the ST unvierse. And survival instinct coupled with the history of Vulcans before Surak, will make things hard.

Thanks for all the other stuff you liked but particularly this...

Transwarp wrote:- The section where T'Pau is pumping Archer for information is also well done, and is probably THE best depiction of a completely centered Vulcan I have ever read anywhere. Nothing Archer did or said rattled her. We rarely see such composure from Vulcans on TV or in the movies, either, heightening the rarity of this scene.


Thank God! Oh thank God, you liked this! I was literally terrified writing the whole exchange! Because first of all I had to deal with Archer, and just about everyone expects his non-fans to make him into a bafoon, and I had to not do that... And then in order to make my story work I had to make T'Pau older then ENT T'Pau (but they screwed themselves and made her too young) and finally, I wanted to make her the woman that would become so revered that we know. You just told me I succeeded! I need chocolate now... :D

Now for the parts you didn't really feel fit...

Transwarp wrote:- This telepathic exchange between the Vulcan twins seemed out of place to me:
--------

Salek and S'Troa were telepathically linked and could communicate with each other easily. Salek said, "Sir Tucker is fascinating."



"Indeed he is, perhaps he will also wish us to address him as Trip. Much about our way of life is changing, my brother."



"Va'Vuhnaya s'Va'Terishlar."



"Ma etek natyan-teretuhr lau etek shetau weh-lo'uk do tum t'on."



"Indeed."

--------

It was just suddenly there, out of the blue, and then nothing more from them. And we don't really learn anything useful from their observation. I'd say to either have MORE of them (we could probably learn some useful things about Vulcan from their observations of Trip) or nothing of them at all.


Well to be fair they weren't allowed to talk. They did once and big brother came down hard! :D Don't worry they're coming back and we'll learn lots about how the new generation of this "Second Awakening" views what has happened, and the changes coming, and their hopes for relationships with other species. I just needed to introduce them here, for several reasons... 1. I needed to show the Kafeh family, and some dynamics there. 2. I was so worried the chapter would have gotten so depressing if I didn't lighten things up, that people would look for alcohol or sharp objects to dull the pain. (Yes dear KotikI was thinking of you) 3. Who doesn't love twins? Kids are cute, pairs of them are better.

Transwarp wrote:- Trip's reaction here (heart pounding) seems out of place to the stimulus. It made me stop and wonder why. T'Pol was not surprised, or angry or sad. Just awkward and shy. Why would that get his blood racing?
--------
It didn't surprise T'Pol that T'Rai was pregnant, but she wondered why she wasn't told. "I was not aware you are expecting a child."


UG! Why didn't I think of that?????? I should have added that Trip's reaction was to T'Rai's pregnancy, not T'Pol being awkward. And that he was concerned T'Pol's reaction to the pregnancy was going to be bad. UG!!!!!!!!!! Why oh why did I see that. :duh:

As for T'Pol not being surprised at the pregnancy... It's typical for Vulcan couples to concieve during Pon Farr. So it wouldn't be a shock since S'Tal and T'Rai had their Pon Farr during T'Pol's wedding to Koss, that T'Rai was pregnant now. However, as I explained, tradition states that the matriarch of the clan be informed of all impending births. T'Rai and S'Tal didn't inform T'Pol immediately, that surprised her because they are stringent protocol keepers.

Transwarp wrote:- I think the section where T'Pol shows Trip the room made to look like his bedroom back on Earth went on a little too long. You had the initial surprise, and the 'Awww that's sweet' moment, but then you explained how she had done it and why she had done it and finding the right candles and... well, to me it just seemed unecessary to go into such detail.


:guffaw: That was just me having fun! Hey I figure I'm the author I'm allowed. It's okay if that part wasn't your cup of tea, I just did it for myself. I'm selfish that way. :-p

Thanks again, I'm gonna e-mail my beta a copy of the review. Everyone else feel free to drop in with thoughts comments strong criticism it's all good!
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:39 am

Creativity is like the weather it changes by the minute. And when you have multiple muses well, sometimes I feel a might schizophrenic. SW's muse wants attention, ST muse wants attention, Original Historical Novel Muse starts nagging, and then the Writers Digest contest Muse says, rip yourself open and spill your soul just once! And now back to May We...

So I'm sitting here pondering introducing characters everyone knows but nobody actually knows. Solkar and Skon... Now two stupendous authors namely :lsr: our frearless leader, and the incomparable Distracted have each done versions of these icons that well live up to their iconic status. After all these 2 men are the great granddaddy and granddaddy of our beloved Spock. However, it makes it very hard for a mere mortal (moi) to spurn all influence of these two great authors, and yet create two characters worthy of their iconic status. Add that to the fact that Solkar is married to T'Pau (hence why in my AU she's older) and you can see why I am rattled. Any advice to get over the nerves?
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And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby Transwarp » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:05 am

WarpGirl wrote:After all these 2 men are the great granddaddy and granddaddy of our beloved Spock. However, it makes it very hard for a mere mortal (moi) to spurn all influence of these two great authors, and yet create two characters worthy of their iconic status. Add that to the fact that Solkar is married to T'Pau (hence why in my AU she's older) and you can see why I am rattled. Any advice to get over the nerves?

Simple, really. You're thinking of them as icons. They're not. They're just characters in your story. Just people with their own backgrounds and personalities and problems. They are there for the SOLE purpose of sustaining the story and furthering the plot. Resist the urge to indulge in their icon-ness; your story comes first!

If you do that, I think when it's all said and done you'll be pleased with the end result.

As for the multiple muses fighting for dominance:

Can I watch? :popcorn:
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:10 am

My Muses are in a catfight and you want to watch... :rotflmao: How typically male. :roll: :lol: :-P Sure why not, they're fully clothed and only pulling each other's hair at this point.

Good advice. The thing is while it is possible to do it for Skon, Solkar is another story he is earth's first Vulcan ambassador. He was the one to greet Zefram Cohcrane. The ST muse who controls Trip is starstruck. :crazed:
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby Escriba » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:40 pm

But Transwarp's advice still applies. Write Solkar's action as a normal person's actions, but then use your own admiration for the mythology of the character to filter those actions through Trip's eyes (if it's his POV.)

I think you can do it.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby Brandyjane » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:44 pm

I'm glad someone's muse (or muses in your case) is doing her job. :clap:

I think that if you write these menasicons, they'll be boring. Make them the characters you want them to be, and based on your previous stories, I think you will do them justice.

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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:55 pm

Escriba you can be the person designated to smack me around if you want. I'd be grateful.

Brandyjane Muses are a pain! Sometimes they want you to do something you know doesn't work and then sometimes they leave you stone cold. Not fair! But with all of them chattering in my brain sometimes I can't think.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:57 am

Just a quick update, not for May We... Unfortunately Trip is still being completely stubborn, so much so he quit talking to me in the scene that I'm writing. Idiot! :roll: He knows I can't get him married until he plays nice but he refuses, oh well he's delaying his own happiness. This update is for Rights. I just submitted the revised version of V'Lar's POV. Now I know people wanted a fight. But that's coming up in Sev's POV. Hopefully he'll be less stubborn then a certain stubborn Engineer with a talent for having "moments of jackassery".
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby Brandyjane » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:22 pm

WarpGirl wrote:Just a quick update, not for May We... Unfortunately Trip is still being completely stubborn, so much so he quit talking to me in the scene that I'm writing. Idiot! :roll: He knows I can't get him married until he plays nice but he refuses, oh well he's delaying his own happiness. This update is for Rights. I just submitted the revised version of V'Lar's POV. Now I know people wanted a fight. But that's coming up in Sev's POV. Hopefully he'll be less stubborn then a certain stubborn Engineer with a talent for having "moments of jackassery".


:lol: After the bad day I've had, this really made me giggle! I hope Trip starts cooperating for you.

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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:42 pm

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: Feel better Brandyjane! I don't know what to do with him. He's just standing in the room gaping and refuses to stop. I've tried and tried to get him conversing like a normal adult, but he refuses! T'Pol's not doing much better truth be told. She's all gobsmacked and needs at least an hour of meditation but I need her that way for the rest of the scene. So I suppose she actually is being good and doing what I need her to do. Trip on the other hand is starting to tick me off. :banghead:
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby WarpGirl » Fri May 13, 2011 7:41 am

Hey Y'all. Okay I am truly having a hellish night/morning for reasons I can't get into. But at least Bones was very good.

Okay OT: Every writer knows that you have to advance the plot. I find myself having tremendous difficulties with May We... the thing is it's not really supposed to be driven by an evil villian (although there will be a few) or a crazy mission (although I'm hoping for some action), the whole idea of the "plot" was to take a very specific place in time, two weeks after Baby Elizabeth's death, to the day the Romulan War begins and show how TnT create their life together.

So here's the issue, I know I tend to write things at a slow pace. And I'm horrifically selfish when it comes to my stories. However, I realize that having a story that moves slower than molassas in January. Is not me being selfish creatively it's just sucky writing.

I'm probably not making much sense let's just chalk this up to some pretty heavy emotional distress.
Some of these people haven't taken their medication. Let's see what happens now...
Donna Moss: The West Wing


And by people WG had herself in mind, but then the quote would have been ruined.
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May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us
*Rights,* Wrongs, and Choices

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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby Transwarp » Fri May 13, 2011 11:26 am

WarpGirl wrote: the whole idea of the "plot" was to take a very specific place in time, two weeks after Baby Elizabeth's death, to the day the Romulan War begins and show how TnT create their life together.

This is a perfectly reasonable and valid plot for a story, with plenty of opportunities for conflict and drama as two people from entirely different cultures (entirely different species!) attempt to create and sustain a relationship. There will be numerous hurdles and roadblocks in there way, both internal and external. Not every good story has to have an 'evil villain' or a 'crazy mission'.

So, you have a plot: Trip and T'Pol have come to realize that they are more than good friends. They want a life together, but they're not sure what that looks like, or how to accomplish it. They are literally blazing the trail.

So you have conflict: all the obstacles they must overcome on the way to their desired outcome (a close, stable, and satisfying relationship). I'm not going to list all the possible obstacles, because there are so many of them, and I'm sure you have a certain subset already in mind.

So there's you're story: Our protagonists desire something (a relationship), but in its pursuit they encounter adversity that they must overcome, revealing and building their character in the process, until finally they reach the end of their journey, the moment when the conflict is resolved and they've found their hearts' desire (each other, in this case).

Seems simple, yes? Of course. But when you say:
WarpGirl wrote:the "plot" was to take a very specific place in time, two weeks after Baby Elizabeth's death, to the day the Romulan War begins

I'm thinking why *that* particular end-point? Is the start of the Romulan War somehow tied to the resolution of their conflicts and their ability to have a relationship with each other? The reason I ask is because you have to be careful that what you write doesn't end up just being a dairy or journal of their lives. When the conflict is resolved, the story *should* be over (or near over).

The start of the war seems like an odd ending point to me, because it is also the start of a whole new set of problems and conflicts. Unless you plan on writing a sequel? (Like Dinah did at the end of 'The Thorn and the Rose', going right into 'The Briar Patch').

Just some food for thought.
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Re: May We Together Become Greater Than The Sum Of Us by WG

Postby panyasan » Fri May 13, 2011 1:50 pm

First of all: take a break. If you're so frustrated, shut down your computer and go outside. Get refreshed.

Second: it's a good sign that you noticed that what you wrote, isn't good. It shows you are willing to take a step back on what you wrote and sense if it ticks or not. It would be worse if you don't notice, publish it and your readers noticed (without telling you).

Also take a moment in your life when you felt similair things (loss, hurt) then the ones you try to write and use that in your writing.

But my final advice would be this. Maybe you already have made your mind up, but I think part of the problem is that you already have made your mind up. Let me explain. You so much want to write this story, but you have to ask yourself: do I really want to write this or do I feel I have to? Is my heart in it? When the muse wants me to write something else, can I or do I feel I have to stick to my original plan? I get the feeling you pushing yourself and that doesn't work in writing. (I had this crazy idea when I wrote this post. Not that I don't want you to write TnT, but I always noticed your love, warmth and heart when you talk about B'Lanna and Paris. You have a story to tell about them, that I think when you start writing about them, the words will come.)
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Chapter 17 of Word of Ice is up!

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8522099/17/World-of-Ice

The Naked Truth and other necessities of life

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12056258/1 ... es-of-life


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